a mortise chisel question

[sparky]

hello all

im curious about my 1/4" mortise chisel and what i should do. i got a set of MHG mortise chisels a while ago and they are fine tools (1/4" 3/8" 1/2"). just very hefty :shock: (they are in the same patter as the two cherries mortise chisels).
now the problem is with my 1/4" chisel. trying to use it with a grip toward the tip to start a cut is not fun since the handle is so large (it is very ackward and difficult because it is so top heavy) i use this size the most and it is the biggest pain to use.
so i was wondering about a solution. :-k should i put a new handle on it (which i have no clue how to do) Or should i look into a more reasonably sized mortise chisel (the lie nielsen came to mind)
does anyone out there use a LN mortise chisel...and if so how is it. i am impressed with their quality but recently i choose to get a set of Barr bench chisels rather than the LN because the LN seemed a bit dainty for my taste and that is my only concern if i were to go with the LN mortise chisel.

sorry for blabbing on like this :roll: but i am curious about your thoughts.
one other thought i had was to order a 1/4" mortise chisel from Barr...but i am not sure what that would look like or cost.

and yet another thought :roll: i know some people in this forum are fond of the english pattern mortise chisels from 'tools for working wood'
what say you... :?:

thanks in advance

sparky

 

[Mirboo]

I've got a set of the Lie-Nielsen mortice chisels and I'm very happy with them. They feel quite balanced and I haven't experienced the problem you describe. If you feel that they are a bit dainty for what you require perhaps you could try the Ray Iles mortice chisels. In the USA you can purchase them from Tools for Working Wood.

 

[Mirboo]

The folks over at Sawmill Creek are discussing the Ray Iles mortice chisels at the moment. They all seem to like them.

 

[Anonymous]

As mortice chisels go the MHG ones are actually a bit on the light side. In any case you don't hold them near the tip ever. Always a firm grip of the handle and the chisel always vertical - no paring, levering etc. just chopping, hitting very hard with big mallet.
Beginners sometimes don't realise how different in use a mortice chisel is compared to others. It can be like a croquet player trying to use the same gentle croquet stroke with a golf club if you see what I mean!
cheers
Jacob

 

[engineer one]

chris scwarz in the last issue of woodworking the alternative to popular woodworking, discusses mortice chisels and also comes out in favour of the Ray Iles types so it might be worth looking at there.

paul :wink:

oh yes and howdy :lol:

 

[sparky]

Ian
i see what you mean about not holding the chisel at the tip. the reason that i did this was to get a nice clean start to the mortise. i have always had trouble getting the mortise cheek cleanly started (hammer)
it seems to always chip out the grain of the board next to the mortise. so my solution was to start the mortise delicately and then get to chopping once that was done. i'm sure i am doing this wrong. any advise or links to advise?

thanks
sparky

 

[Anonymous]

Ian
i see what you mean about not holding the chisel at the tip. the reason that i did this was to get a nice clean start to the mortise. i have always had trouble getting the mortise cheek cleanly started (hammer)
it seems to always chip out the grain of the board next to the mortise. so my solution was to start the mortise delicately and then get to chopping once that was done. i'm sure i am doing this wrong. any advise or links to advise?

thanks
sparky

It's like nailing - you give it a gentle tap to locate the point and then hit it hard.
Also you start in the middle somewhere, working outwards, and cut the edge of the hole last so that the chips fall into a space already cut and the chisel won't be wedged back across the line.

cheers
Jacob

 

[AHoman]

Beginners sometimes don't realise how different in use a mortice chisel is compared to others. It can be like a croquet player trying to use the same gentle croquet stroke with a golf club if you see what I mean!

Jacob and other fans of the heavy, oval-handled mortise chisels,
I wish that I could understand this better. I've got several kinds of mortise chisels at home --- a 1/2" oval handled mortise chisel, several 1/4" sash mortise chisels, and the anomaly: the LN mortise chisel (1/4"). Having used the 1/2" oval handled one, I can understand the appeal of this design for larger-sized mortises. What my (beginner's) mind can't wrap itself around is the idea that this heaviness is _necessary_ for any work that one could possibly do with a 1/4" mortise. I understand that some individuals find it easier to line up the oval handle with the mortise, but I don't have problems with the alignment of my mortises with round-handled sash mortise chisels or the LN, so for me, this is a non-issue. I started out tapping the LN lightly due to its dainty appearance but now I've gotten use to wailing on it with my homemade, heavy ash mallet and it shows no sign of crying "uncle"! Perhaps this is just something that I won't understand until I either chop 100 mortises in a day or actually use an OBM on a 1/4" mortise, but until then, can you illucidate? Thanks,
Andy
P.S. I see no wear and tear on my 1/4" LN mortise chisel's handle, but it occurs to me that replacement would be quite a bit easier than replacement of an OBM handle (which I've also done on an old one).

 

[Anonymous]

snip]
What my (beginner's) mind can't wrap itself around is the idea that this heaviness is _necessary_ for any work that one could possibly do with a 1/4" mortise.

In the past it was a production tool - not just in use for occasional one offs. That means speed would be important so being able to hit with max effort would be an advantage

snip
I won't understand until I either chop 100 mortises in a day
snip

Exactly!
Another thing is the "sash" mortice chisel, which I only recently understood (very useful this group I learn something everyday) which is intended for mortices which you will find in window "sashes" i.e. lights, casements etc. The point is that they tend to be square; 1/2 inch or 3/8 in smaller work being common, so a chisel with a square or less profile is needed. But deep mortices through stiles.
Others can be oversquare which helps with big mortices - more wedging action and keeps straighter.
So a "sash" mortice chisel isn't necessarily lighter in construction except insofar as it is square or less in section.

cheers
Jacob

 

[Wiley Horne]

This is on Sparky's question regarding the splintering of grain alongside the mortise he is chopping.....Sparky, are you knifing in the mortise outline before you start chopping it?

Wiley

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Wiley

In regard to the knifing of the mortice outline, have you tried chopping a mortice the way Rob Cosman does in his recent DVD? - he marks out one side only and chops along that. Seems to work well for him.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Wiley Horne]

Hi Derek,

No, I haven't tried the 'knife one side' approach. At the outset of a project, I set a mortise gauge (Japanese type, with knives) to my chisel width, and with the desired inset from the reference face, for each size mortise. For example, the leg-to-apron mortises will differ a bit from the double-tenon drawer blade-to-leg mortises. So I set two gauges and don't change them til the job is done.

I wonder what is the advantage of knifing just one side.....trying to save on mortise gauges? I don't find it takes any time to do the gauge set up.

Wiley

 

[AHoman]

In regard to the knifing of the mortice outline, have you tried chopping a mortice the way Rob Cosman does in his recent DVD? - he marks out one side only and chops along that. Seems to work well for him.

Derek,
I've been doing this -- I think it works great!
-Andy

 

[Anonymous]

Sparky

I am very happy with the LN mortise chisels. nicely balanced and so far are holding an edge very well despite some enthusiastic use of the mallet

 

[sparky]

i really appreciate all the feedback

but i tell ya...so many thoughts :shock: ...what to do? :-k

i got a full set of MHG chisels some time ago and i found that the steel was awful. the edges rolled over easier than i do when the alarm goes off in the morning 8-[
so returned the the whole set and they were replaced. the next set were a bit better but not enough for me to be satisfied. it is now well past the time to return them so i am thinking about replacing the mortise chisels. i have already started getting together a set of Barr bench chisels...so it may seem obvious that i prefer a more stout chisel. (hammer)
i love hearing all the different opinions. thanks
i like the oval handled Ray Iles but they are out of stock and i am thinking about contacting Barr about some mortise chisels. i just wonder what they would look like since i have never seen what he does for a mortise chisel. if they are anything like the other ones that i have they will be very stout.
has anyone ever seen a barr mortise chisel (not the huge timber framing ones :wink: )
if you would choose between the Ray Iles or Barr what do you folks think? i know that this is very hypothetical but...there is no such thing as stupid questions just stupid people :roll:

thanks
sparky

ps. is there anyplace that i can go to here in the US to hold these chisels and see how they feel? it is a pain trying to pick out a tool that will last for the rest of your life from a photo in a catalog...not to mention the price.
sorry...just blowing off some steam :evil:

 

[sparky]

sorry tony

i missed replying to your message.
i am glad to hear about your LN mortisers...i love the price tag in comparison to the others but they still seem more dainty than i might like. if i were to get a set they would be smaller than my Barr bench chisels (that just seems wierd to me)
but to be really fair i want to try to find a place to hold a set and maybe try them. i can't ignore them since they carry such a wonderrful reputation and that price is wonderful.

would LN frown on ordering a set to try them and if i was not happy would they take them back or would i need to exchange them.

thanks tony

sparky