A DUST EXTRACTOR

[Alexam]

I'm sure there have been many requests for information on this subject, but as someone fairly new to woodworking, I am now realising that my friendly 'Henry', is not up to all the tasks I ask of him, particularly adding a sander to the equipment.

It's a minfield, with each manufacturer stating why their extractor is the best, but for a hobby workshop (double garage) and a bandsaw and recently aquired small disc and belt sander machine, is it possible to whittle down a few good machines that don't cost the earth.

Im thinking that they will start at £150 and go up to hundreds, but I would like to keep the cost down to under £300 if possible. We do wear a Trend Airrace mask in dusty situations and would like good filtering to avoid, if possible. the harmful dust and agrivated Asthma.

Thanks for looking

Alex

 

[wcndave]

Ah, i answered you in the other thread ;-)

 

[Alexam]

Thanks Dave,

I missed that this morning and the Numatic NV5750 does look as if it would do the job. I wonder what comparissons there are to that model around. Perhaps others will reply on this.

Appreciate your help.

Alex

 

[wcndave]

I believe the recordones are well thought of

I have the makita

It can be fitted with brown very fine dust bags, or cheaper white bags. It has auto take off, and is definitely in your price range. Here it's £230

My only problem was the price of bags, but i resolved that somewhat.

Don't forget you need to add for the adaptors, I have 10cm, 2 1/2" and the sander was 3 1/4" i think - took me a while to find all the right parts - Rutlands was good for that.

Most of the machines are going to be ok, and it really depends on your needs. My journey was like this:

Sander + bandsaw + some power tools: get the Makita as it's a real vac + auto take off + wet and dry + triple filtration
Add table saw - seems ok

Add router table and planer - bags start to fill up really fast with chips, so I take the bag out when doing chips, and leave in for dust.
Get fed up with that, so add a drop box separator which the chips fall into and only the dust goes in the vacuum.

There is a permanent larger hose for fixed tools, and the smaller "vac" hose for hand tools.
I then added piping and blast gates, so each machine is isolated and auto starts.

When you consider the separator you start to get lots of options: Thein, cyclone, drop box, separate chip and dust extractors (the bigger machines with the white bag on top and plastic bag underneath are normally chip collectors rather than dust extraction, however that's not always the case...)

If I started again I would quite likely go makita again, or else the Numatic 750 or Record with lots of things added on. (Eg separators, extra filters etc).

I would start simple and see how you get on, but I reckon you can't really go wrong with the three options above.

 

[Alexam]

Sounds like you have a good system of filtration there, but probably more that I need for out hobby in the double garage. I had thought about capacity of extraction and saw that a Scheppach HA1000, at £120 had an extraction of 183Lt/s, although the Numatic 750 had 173Lt/s, but is £407, but don't know it Scheppach is a good extractor or not. Also considering one of those suspended above type as an additional air filter?

Alex

 

[wcndave]

[/quote]

Sounds like you have a good system of filtration there, but probably more that I need for out hobby in the double garage.

My space was an 8' shed at the start, but if you get into it you may need to expand the dust collection regardless of the size of the workspace

I had thought about capacity of extraction and saw that a Scheppach HA1000, at £120 had an extraction of 183Lt/s, although the Numatic 750 had 173Lt/s, but is £407, but don't know it Scheppach is a good extractor or not.

Scheppach used to be a good brand, gone downhill in some areas recently, however it does look quite good

Also considering one of those suspended above type as an additional air filter?

They are good for removing dust from air, however in addition to removing dust at source. At source has got to be your priority, so if you have £300 to spend you probably won't get one of those.

 

[Alexam]

Great to hear from you again and the information is invaluable to me.

I have been looking at the web and other stuff most of the morning and come back to the Jet AFS-500, the portable air filtration, as oposed to the larger suspended one. At £224 it does add to the required 'source extractor that is needed. However, stretching the purse strings to both, could add that amount to the overall outlay of between £114 and £255, which makes to Numatic a bit 'heavy' at £255.

I wonder if I should get a 'source' one first and see what happens, then possibly add the air purification. It depends a little on the initial results, but I am thinking that whechever one I pick, there will still be dust in the air to breath in a soon as my mask is removed, but far less with both. Trying to justify the spending!

Alex

 

[wcndave]

I don't know many hobbiests that have the air filtration. Everybody has source collection.

If you're on a budget - go for source. You can always open the garage door to air it!

 

[Alexam]

Just had a nice chat with Glynne Roberts from Sutton Coldfield, about filtration. Most informative also and I will be expanding my web search for more info. Good comments on Syclone performance, which I had not considered.
Alex

 

[wcndave]

A cyclone before your dust extractor can save on bags and dust getting in your extractor motor. By performance do you mean that keeping your extractor clear means no loss of suction due to bags / extractors getting full?

 

[nicguthrie]

I have the Numatic NVD750. It's a great general use vac/extractor, but it's not up to the power and flow of a larger chip extraction type machine, but then I think that's the case with all the units that use under the 4" hoses. The Numatic has the ability to use either hose, and it takes seconds to change between them, and the suction is very powerful on the small hose. I do find the large hose struggles with things like the bandsaw, so I just dont use it. It does have a good fine filter on it tho. There's even an optional extra HEPA filter, but that's almost as much as another extractor.

One thing I rather like about the Numatic, is that you can use the bags very slowly - sort of semi-reusing them. What you do is cut the bag in half, and use it to cover the collection drum, then put the other filters and the suction unit back on, on top. This way, all the chips and dust is filtered through the same number of layers as usual, you just empty that drum when it starts to fill. I then beat the half bag over the composter bin a little to clean the dust (while wearing a mask), and pop it back in. after 2 or 3 uses it becomes obvious that it's getting rather caked, so I change it for another half bag. All very handy if you're working on a budget.

I like having a separate air filter too, I've got one of the Microclene 760 ones. http://www.turners-retreat.co.uk/machinery/microclene/air-filters/mc760-microclene-filter I use the activated carbon filters in it, and it not only eliminates extra dust in the air (handy, as my wife likes to come have a cuppa with me when I'm out in the workshop) but it also eliminates fumes and stink from things like drilling acrylic blanks or using cellulose thinners.

Having lung problems before I even started turning, I was rather paranoid while choosing my kit, and having the vac running attached to my toolrest on the lathe, the filter running behind it, and a mask too - I'm fairly certain that I'm not inhaling any dust worth thinking about, which is a relief, as I really love my spalted woods!

I remember it being hard to make the choice, with so many things to choose from, so all the best!

Nic.

 

[Alexam]

By performance do you mean that keeping your extractor clear means no loss of suction due to bags / extractors getting full? ........................... correct Dave, thought it may be a help eventually.

Nic,

sounds as if you are well protected there. I am still looking at options, but will go and do a bit in the garage now and come back to this later. Thanks for the reply.

Alex

 

[wcndave]

Good info Nic.

I think there are differences between airflow / pressure / volume / suction etc that all mean different things...

I use my vac connected to 2.5" ducting system with adaptor to a 10cm port on my planer, which generates a lot of chips and it picks up most of them - still have to sweep the floor a bit after.

Thing is I don't worry about chips so much as you can't breathe them in - Alex is looking at dust so a vac should be ok.

BTW Nic, you say you run the microclene (which I have looked at) whilst working. I have heard conflicting reports about these stirring up settled dust and best left to run for an hour after you're finished (with auto switch off). Have you noticed anything like that?

 

[nicguthrie]

I think there are differences between airflow / pressure / volume / suction etc that all mean different things...

BTW Nic, you say you run the microclene (which I have looked at) whilst working. I have heard conflicting reports about these stirring up settled dust and best left to run for an hour after you're finished (with auto switch off). Have you noticed anything like that?

Hey, I realise they are all different things, and I'm not engineer but I tried to keep that in mind in my comment. Sorry if I got a little confusing or confused. I was trying to say that the NVD750 has a great suction pressure (trying to pull it off things it's limpetted on to proves that) and the flow rate is excellent through the 2" nozzle as it's concentrated that way, but through it's 4" nozzle, the flow rate isn't sufficient to give quite as useful a vacuum effect, you even have to squash the top a little to use it to pick dust and chips off the bench. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure I couldn't have gotten a better system in the UK for the same price, and the 4" hose may work ok if it's actually being fed already disturbed and airborne dust and chips, it's just not quite enough to pull dust through the machinery of the bandsaw I have.

As for the Microclene, I could see that sort of thing happening with the round ones, but the square one, the 760 is designed to be able to mount on a wall, and the vents are fairly cleverly designed to not pass straight out the back, but at sort of 45degrees from the rear corners. This passes the air along the wall it's leaning against rather than along your bench or anything.

While I'm at the lathe, most of the dust (especially the finest stuff) goes straight down the 2" nozzle of my extractor, which I dangle by magnet off my toolrest. Some will fire off with sufficient speed, or at the other end of the toolrest, and escape it, but I definitely do see a difference with the microclene running, as against forgetting to turn it on - you can actually see the dust at my lathe 2 feet away, drifting towards it despite the added turbulence of the nearby extractor hose.

I'd definitely recommend the 760, it's a great little bit of kit, and the amount of dust I vac or wash out the filter every week proves it's efficiency. The fact it can use activated carbon filters is just icing on the cake

Nic.

 

[Alexam]

Sorry to be a pest on this, but have been looking into this further. In addition to a dedicated extractor to connect, induvidually, to a bandsaw or a sander, I do feel that an 'AIR' filter is necessary. I do like the sound of the Microclene, but having just calculated the volume of our double garage(115 cu/m), something larger than the 760 is needed, unless positioning it near the dust producer would solve the problem.

I would like fine filtration 1 Micron and below (0.5) to clear the air, so is there a reasonably priced range to suspend above the work area when in use, or is it better to have something more mobile that can be put in different positions, say above the sander or bandsaw, in addition to the extractor fitted to the machine?

Alex

 

[Woodmonkey]

Don't know what your budget is but I've got one of these
http://www.yandles.co.uk/record-power-a ... elay/p5004
Which seems to do the job in our quite big shared workshop. The guy in the shop suggested stringing up two lengths of strong washing line and hanging it from them so it can be slid to a specific area if say you were doing a lot of sanding

 

[Alexam]

That's interesting. I had thought of something like that myself. Easy to move the air filteringmore directly, close to the offending machinery. I had thought of the Record, particularly with the 5 year guarantee, but the only possible problem is that I have heard various reports on the size f the filtering. What is your opinion?

Alex

 

[nicguthrie]

Interestingly, although I really like a lot of record power's stuff, it only claims 1 micron filtration for their general filter, whereas the microclene claims 0.4 micron, and has the carbon based fume removal option.

Personally I find the setup I have, with the filter right beside the dust source seems to work really well, and I'd suspect that any of these high-volume air filters is going to have a lesser filtration ability than a good mask or a top end vacuum extractor anyway, simply cos of how they work.

There are several other versions of the Microclene, for various volume needs, http://www.microclene.com.au/air.filters.html I hope you find what you're looking for, but I look at the air filter as a way to clean the suspended detritus from the air, and try to catch the finest particles either right by the source with my vac head, or at access to my lungs, via a decent filter mask (I splurged on that and bought the powercap IP, that I found online for a pretty good deal.)

I've seen a lot of folks use a moveable stand, with the 4" pipe to their extractor mounted on it right by their turning, to minimise fine particles getting into the air to start with, might that help?

Nic.

 

[Woodmonkey]

Like others have already said, there's no one solution for dust extraction. We extract as much as possible at source, the record jobbie takes a lot of the airborne stuff out and on high dust producing jobs like sanding on the lathe or cutting MDF I wear a mask (one of those 3m ones with the p3 filters).

 

[graduate_owner]

Hi Alexam,
I think you are very sensible to take this issue seriously, and as you say, it is a minefield. Regarding air filtration, I bought 2 Sip/microclene filters from this ebay source
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/06899-T1000-A ... 232dad19b9
after someone on the forum posted the details.
They have none at the moment but it may be worth your while asking them if they will be having any more in. But as has been said, collect at source first.

K