A Bunch of Questions on Spokeshave Dating

[J_SAMa]

Looking around for some spokeshaves now

a) some Records I've seen are painted red and some blue, some just aren't painted (or appear not to be because the paint fell off?)...
b) the cap irons on some Records have this cast in them:

on some other ones the castings are different:

c) Stanley's red cap irons vs. grey cap irons? Are the red cap irons newer?
d) some shaves (both Stanley and Record) have stickers with the maker's name on them. I don't know why but this makes me think they are new...
e) some Stanleys have this criss-cross pattern on their handles and some don't. Which ones are older?

Also one more question on the A151s. Why do some spokeshaves use malleable iron? Shouldn't the soles be as hard as possible?

Sam

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The red Records were probably the best. The malleable iron is hard, it is just less likely to break when dropped or during heavy use. The handles are thin and relatively weak, so malleable would help. Stanley did malleable versions also, painted grey I think. Not that the others were bad, just that the red ones were made at a time when the quality of manufacture was good, too.

That said, I'm not a big fan of this style of shave, and would go for different a pattern, myself. It depends on the work you do, I suppose, and how much scraping and sanding you want to do to refine the finish afterwards. Stanley did an adjustable mouth shave, can't remember the model number, (152 maybe) but if you can find a good one of theses, will prove to be a fine shave. Kunz make a copy, I have an example, and it is surprisingly good.

Mike.

 

[J_SAMa]

Hello,

The red Records were probably the best. The malleable iron is hard, it is just less likely to break when dropped or during heavy use. The handles are thin and relatively weak, so malleable would help. Stanley did malleable versions also, painted grey I think. Not that the others were bad, just that the red ones were made at a time when the quality of manufacture was good, too.

That said, I'm not a big fan of this style of shave, and would go for different a pattern, myself. It depends on the work you do, I suppose, and how much scraping and sanding you want to do to refine the finish afterwards. Stanley did an adjustable mouth shave, can't remember the model number, (152 maybe) but if you can find a good one of theses, will prove to be a fine shave. Kunz make a copy, I have an example, and it is surprisingly good.

Mike.

It seems at the moment there aren't any other styles on eBay (except for woodies)... But I'm not buying it yet, just looking around to clear the mysteries and preparing myself with some knowledge.

053 is the adjustable mouth I think, at least in Record's catalog.

The Kunz copy you have, is it the 151 style? Is it even better than vintage ones?

Sam

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Kunz aren't that good, some of their stuff is quite awful, so I would say the good vintage shaves are best. Since they are small, though, there is little fettling required , which is why I said my Kunz adjustable mouth shave is surprisingly good. Vintage adjustable mouth shaves are harder to come across, which is why i went for the kunz, rather than wait for ages for the right one to come along. I think your kunz 151 will tune up OK. I can't imagine they are worse than later Stamley 151's which are horrible, but fettleable. I would tend to steer clear of Kunz planes.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

Steel SSs are like saws in that they are technically simple which means that as long as they are complete and not too weird they can be made to work. I've got a horrid cheap pink one with a big mouth which is curved in both directions (badly made - not deliberate). This means that a straight blade edge is impossible to use. But cambering the blade to match the sole remedies this and it works fine.
I've got a Chinese "Diamond Brand" found in a box of junk. New cap bolt found in bike bits box. Sharpened and adjusted it works perfectly - no different from the very best except for lack of adjustment (no problem really).

 

[AndyT]

A quick word on wooden spokeshaves:

They are a great example of how what looks a simple tool has some subtleties to it. The hand-forged irons were hardened for the blade part but left soft on the tangs, which were individually fitted to the wooden stocks, so that there was a good friction fit between steel and wood. Adjusting the cut is as simple as knocking the shave on the bench. There used to be a huge choice of sizes and styles.

In my experience they are the best tool for shaping end grain on something like the seat of a Windsor chair, giving excellent control of the cut. The low angle gives more of a shearing cut than the metal shaves do.

The Hawley Tool Collection has published a great little pamphlet documenting how they were made - by hand, by the thousand. It's only £6.00 - see here:

http://www.hawleytoolcollection.com/index.php?sheffield-tool=papers-and-publications

 

[J_SAMa]

Good news, just won a Sweetheart 151R on eBay... for £19 (the second bidder was £18, phew)... Is that too much or just reasonable? It was the only USA pre-WWII shave on the Bay so I threw everything I had...

 

[Jacob]

Not cheap but it's a "collectable" tool and that's what you are paying for. Not necessarily any better than a plain ordinary 151. I always unload collectable stuff as collectors value them more than I do.

 

[J_SAMa]

Not cheap but it's a "collectable" tool and that's what you are paying for. Not necessarily any better than a plain ordinary 151. I always unload collectable stuff as collectors value them more than I do.

Still, it's indefinitely better than post-70 shaves right :wink:.

 

[Racers]

Hi, J_SAMa

Ignore what Jacod says, its a good spokeshave, defiantly a keeper.
Keep your eye out for Preston shaves they are probably the best metal ones.
Get some wooden ones, with a little work like re-mouthing and grub screws to cure loose blades they work better than any metal ones I have sold my Record and Stanley metal shaves apart from the Stanley 53.

You will need a Millers Falls No1 Cigar shave at some point, that's a fun shave to sharpen and use!

Pete

 

[Jacob]

Not cheap but it's a "collectable" tool and that's what you are paying for. Not necessarily any better than a plain ordinary 151. I always unload collectable stuff as collectors value them more than I do.

Still, it's indefinitely better than post-70 shaves right :wink:.

Not necessarily. There's a lot of baloney talked about old tools. I bought new 151s in about 1980 and they were spot on.

 

[G S Haydon]

Enjoy the new purchase J_SAMa. The only way you will know if it's better for you than a newer model would be to buy both, trial it on your type of woodworking and decide. I would just stick to the one you have and enjoy it ;-)

 

[bugbear]

I have sold my Record and Stanley metal shaves apart from the Stanley 53.

I'm a big fan of the #63, #64. Those little beauties are so small and handy to use.

But I have "some other" spokeshaves to use as need and fancy guides

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

I know lots of us like to have a good 'selection' of tools but with spoke shaves it's easy and practical to do so as they are cheap and take up little space. There is no need to make one tool work on every task. The old wooden ones I have range from about 8 inches to about 14 inches long, with irons in proportion.