Moulding plane spring

[richarnold]

There has been a bit of discussion lately about spring on moulding planes, so I popped out to the workshop this afternoon, and took some images of planes with, and without spring so folks could see the difference. A lot of early British moulding planes had no spring. This is possibly the earliest plane in my collection, and although there is no way of verifying it, it possibly dates from the middle of the 17th century. This plane has no spring, working the mould straight down so to speak. I thought it might be interesting to try it out, but it proved to be an absolute pig to work with, the mouth choked up with almost every pass. One unusual feature of this plane is that it has no built in stop so the mould continues to be cut for as long as you keep plaining.

The next plane also cuts with no spring. There is no makers mark, but stialistickly it possibly dates to around 1740.
Unlike the first plane, this one works with impecable manners, and i have used it before now to make a bolection mould for a paneled door.

Moving on now to a plane with spring. This is a complex moulder by John Rogers of London, 1734-1765. I hadn't got a protractor to hand, but you can see that the stock of the plane is held at a considerable angle to stick the mould. nearly all these planes have lines scribed into the toe to give you some indication as to what angle to hold them to.
The spring provides a couple of advantages over planes without this feature. I find it easier to keep the plane on track when you are providing a sideways pressure whilst sticking the mould, and from the plane makers point of view, they could use a narrower stock which saved them timber.
Please note that the wood is only held in the vice at that angle so i could take the photo!
For anyone who fancies trying out a moulding plane, I will be demonstrating at the next MAC open day at the end of July, so why not come along and have a go

 

[jimi43]

Interesting demonstration for me as I had not realised about "spring" before it came up recently and although I managed to work it out....it is far better to see it in action in your interesting photographs and I fully intend to "have a play" later this month.

With the Gabriel I repaired recently...there is no indication of spring lines...do you think they have worn or would you say it never had any?

I take it from this photo and the width that this is a straight down job!

I missed out on a couple of old John Greens tonight (did you win them?)...on FleaBay...I have a soft spot for old Iohn's work....it was one of the first makers I bought and I knew even less than...just lucky first strike I guess!

Hope to see you at MAC Timbers...

Jim

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Here's a brief extract about spring from John Whelan's book, 'Making Traditional Wooden Planes':

"The reason for this lies in the fact that the plane's throat expands (at the wedge angle) as it approaches it's top. The higher a segment of the cutting edge is located in the throat, the wider is the mouth in front of it. To keep the mouth opening as small and uniform as possible, the profile is positioned to keep it within the smallest possible vertical span; which most often means at an angle. The stock of the plane must be held at this spring angle while it is use, to cut the moulding desired. This provides a second advantage. Using the plane at this angle tends to keep the fence firmly against the guiding edge of the workpiece."

Rich - you have more experience of using moulding planes than the rest of us put together; would you say that the variability of mouth width in a wide moulding plane without spring cutting a fairly deep moulding would tend to make the plane prone to choke? Or, putting it another way, if the mouth width is as consistent as possible, is the plane less likely to choke?

 

[richarnold]

With the Gabriel I repaired recently...there is no indication of spring lines...do you think they have worn or would you say it never had any?

Hi Jim, its difficult to be certain without having the plane in my hand, but i do think it is intended to be worked with spring. not all moulding planes have the spring lines marked on them, but most are. By the way congrats on the restoration of the moulder. It gladdens my heart to see such tools put back into working order. As to the John Greens it wasn't me. I'm being tough on myself on ebay just lately!

 

[richarnold]

Here's a brief extract about spring from John Whelan's book, 'Making Traditional Wooden Planes':

"The reason for this lies in the fact that the plane's throat expands (at the wedge angle) as it approaches it's top. The higher a segment of the cutting edge is located in the throat, the wider is the mouth in front of it. To keep the mouth opening as small and uniform as possible, the profile is positioned to keep it within the smallest possible vertical span; which most often means at an angle. The stock of the plane must be held at this spring angle while it is use, to cut the moulding desired. This provides a second advantage. Using the plane at this angle tends to keep the fence firmly against the guiding edge of the workpiece."

Rich - you have more experience of using moulding planes than the rest of us put together; would you say that the variability of mouth width in a wide moulding plane without spring cutting a fairly deep moulding would tend to make the plane prone to choke? Or, putting it another way, if the mouth width is as consistent as possible, is the plane less likely to choke?

Hi. i'm not sure about the experience bit, as i hadn't thought about the throat bit before. that's most interesting. Having said that, i have examined a few of my wide complex moulders, both with, and without spring, and in reality there's not much difference in the mouth width.
As to what makes moulding planes choke, one of the most common ones is a poorly fitting wedge at the lower end. It's a bit like the back iron on a bench plane, unless it's a perfect fit shavings get stuck under it pretty rapidly. I think another reason is when the iron does not match the the profile on the stock, or if it's correct, but set out of line in the stock.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Something has just occurred to me.

Spring lines are always scribed on the toe of a plane. When you use a plane, you hold it in such a way that you can see the heel, but not the toe, so you can't see the spring lines to align them to the timber being planed. Now, it clearly doesn't matter that much, because if it did the problem would have been addressed a couple of centuries ago, but it does seem a bit odd.

Anybody got any thoughts on the matter?

 

[AndyT]

In my (limited) experience, having the spring lines on the toe means that you can hold the plane in the starting position, then lean over ahead of the plane and see that it's at the right angle. Then you can adjust your stance and start planing, without changing the angle at which you hold the plane.

If the lines were on the heel, you'd only see them after you'd made a cut - and then only if you bent down - but too late to change the angle at which you hold the plane.

That said, for many operations, just a glance at the fence or stop is enough, and often the fence will be resting against the side of the wood. (When I say fence, I just mean the last little non-cutting part of the shape, not a plough style fence.)