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Thanks for that.
I quite like Steve Ramsey in small doses. The other guy I just don't understand. I hope that my work would be of rather higher quality.

But that's the challenge. I do think that most people think that the work I've done in the past has been good quality. OK, some of the film technique is dated, but in terms of the material, it's all good. I only talk about what I know, which is why I've never done anything on carving or turning, for example.

But how do you continue to create top quality stuff, month after month after month? It's easy to produce tat every month, but I don't want to do that, there is enough junk in the world without me adding to it.

Lots of food for thought, and I do intend to produce something, somehow.

Thank you very much.
 
kostello":2th9dkd2 said:
Sometimes it is interesting to watch people learning something that they have no idea about......

Well in some contexts, yes. "Who do you think you are?" is a case in point.

But do I want to pay for any kind of instructional video only to find that the bloke spouting on obviously knows little more about the subject than I do? Not really, no.
 
I think that creating interesting viewing is often over complicated. There is only a finite number of times you can have videos showing how to make dovetails, Mortice and tenon joints. These are skills that there is über choice to see on uTube.

A lot of people starting out are frightened about starting a project as they can't see how to use these techniques to actually create a finished object that is of 'professional' quality.

A good example is how many people have followed step by step the build of your new workshop. If you think of the material that could have been spun off it looking at how the techniques could be modified for a 6' shed and upwards you would have enough material for few years of stuff.

Making Windows and doors comes up fairly regularly. There is no one that I've found on uTube who explains how to make all the variety of Windows and doors that are around.

Circular work is also not covered anywhere that I've found. From making bulls eye Windows to curved sliding saches with an arched top.

I would like to suggest that although there is content out there, it often doesn't cover the 'when it's all gone wrong how to get you out of trouble'. I'm a firm believer that the true seasoned professional is not one that never makes a mistake, it's the person who makes them and knows how to over come it and no one can tell or knows.

To make money at this kind of thing (IMO) you need to approach it like any other business, identify your customers, and ensure everything you do is targeted at their needs. You can't possible cover every segment of the market you need to pick one or possible two and focus on that.

I think there are at least four distinct groups of people that are interested in stuff
1. DIYer
Very basic DIYer with an interest. A few hand tools bought from one of the sheds, electric drill, and possibly a router and jig saw. Does projects every now and again probably driven by what's needed to be done in the house. Seeks help only for the projects that their working on. No general interest in learning about the craft. Mainly driven by avoiding the cost of trades people.

1. Enthusiast
The enthusiast, good set of tools including power tools. Own some form of table saw / band saw, router table. Retires at most opportunities to the shed / workshop, actively seeks out forums and general wood working information.

2. Hand Tool Specialist.
Then there are the hand tool enthusiasts / developers of tradition skills. Probably have or aspire to own premier hand tools / real high quality vintage stuff. Will have a tool cabinet that covers the majority of tools required for any project and will buy a set of rounds and hollows if they can find / afford them. Know how to make joints and are on a path of becoming increasing competent at using them. Extremely knowledgable, it's their main interest, and seek to become experts in every area. Looking for content on complex problems.

3. Professional Workshop
Wood work enthusiast / professional with workshop. Will have a good selection of hand tools but also a selection of professional wood working machines. Will have a table saw, P/T, Router table or spindle Moulder, Band Saw, Pillar drill. A greed selection of power tools which probably extends to Dimino or similar.

4. Professional without workshop.
As above but will have transportable table saw etc, Festool or high end interactions power tools. On site hand tools, stuff they don't worry too much about if they get lost, I.e. Disposable hand saws, Aldi chisels etc.

I think that by carefully working through a segmentation of the market you will create a really good understanding of each category of woodworker there is and what will appeal to the.

The next step is then to equip yourself with the tools that the sectors you want to cover will use. Don't use, or show, or have anywhere I. Your videos anything that would not found in the Tom chest of the sector you've selected. Make sure that everything you demonstrate / produce has actually been made on the tools the sector has. I.e. Don't use a P/T secretly if your creating Hand Tool content. There is for instance no point in doing content and videos on a Soindle moulder if your target audience is the hand tools specialist. Equally pick a tool that inky a very few in your sector will have, unless a sponsor is paying you to plug it!

To generate income, you need to know who your audience is, by tailoring your presentation videos to attract the segment you want you will not only build a larger audience quickly but it will have a specific characteristic.

The characteristic of the audience is of great interest to both companies looking to advertise their stuff but also wanting to place their branded stuff in your videos. Approach a manufacturer with a plan of content your looking to produce, highlight and show what the content is you've created and the size of the audience you have at the moment. You need to make it easy for the people who control advertising and marketing. Start small, and ask for a selection of power tools in return for featuring their use in your content. It's very cheap for them to do this and your likely to succeed. Then go npback and show how you've grown your audience with a new project, suggest advertising / sponsorship deal. Make any deal specific to the project and be ire pared to either only get a small contribution or nothing. Build your audience and keep knocking on doors. A few thousand followers is worth a lot of they have a specific characteristic that you can define. Another approach is to approach a shed for instance and suggest that you will do a series of videos that is season specific (build a barbecue for instance) where the plans, materials and costing uses their stuff and every tool you will use comes from them. Suggest they link it to one of their promotions that you can also make a feature of.

I think looking for people to pay to view is a bizarre business model. It's like asking someone to buy something that's hidden in a bin liner. Until you have seen it you don't know whether it's worth the money, when you have seen it you don't need to spend the money. Would you pay for something that you don't know you want? I know I wouldn't!

The model should be about attracting advertising and sponsorship. That's the money spinner, and I've seen scant evidence that anyone has actually worked out how to both segment, target and then generate an income from looking at it as a proper business would do.

You don't sell barbecues in winter or snow shovels in summer. This seems obvious, but consider Paul Sellers as an example. He does some really good stuff, however, whose his target audience? What's he actually trying to achieve as a business? I personally don't know. His content fluctuates all over the place and he is IMO trying to appeal to every sector, as a consequence I can see no evidence of product placement or advertising that is highly attracted to his blog / uTube content. The closest I've seen to someone working to a business model are the Wood Whisperer and the unPluggedworkshop chap. The WW is sponsored by Powermattic and others, he's looking at the Enthusiast I believe however some of his stuff is also biased towards the Professional Workshop. He Presents and promotes the brands that sponsors him exclusively in everything he does. The UnPlugged has targeted the Hand Tool Specialist and he promotes Veritas tools when ever a sharp implement touches wood.

When searching uTube / the Internet people are looking either for techniques or how to do stuff. Content should be driven by this rather than thinking of it as some form of classical educational cariculum
 
I think there is a market for short videos placed on you tube to entice people then pay to view full videos available on website.

Perhaps the website could also be an affiliate site, although Im generally not a fan of these as most are blatantly designed for clicking through and have no original content.
 
deema":2wljfwdc said:
I think that creating interesting viewing is often over complicated. There is only a finite number of times you can have videos showing how to make dovetails, Mortice and tenon joints. These are skills that there is über choice to see on uTube.

A lot of people starting out are frightened about starting a project as they can't see how to use these techniques to actually create a finished object that is of 'professional' quality.

A good example is how many people have followed step by step the build of your new workshop. If you think of the material that could have been spun off it looking at how the techniques could be modified for a 6' shed and upwards you would have enough material for few years of stuff.

Making Windows and doors comes up fairly regularly. There is no one that I've found on uTube who explains how to make all the variety of Windows and doors that are around.

Circular work is also not covered anywhere that I've found. From making bulls eye Windows to curved sliding saches with an arched top.

I would like to suggest that although there is content out there, it often doesn't cover the 'when it's all gone wrong how to get you out of trouble'. I'm a firm believer that the true seasoned professional is not one that never makes a mistake, it's the person who makes them and knows how to over come it and no one can tell or knows.

To make money at this kind of thing (IMO) you need to approach it like any other business, identify your customers, and ensure everything you do is targeted at their needs. You can't possible cover every segment of the market you need to pick one or possible two and focus on that.

I think there are at least four distinct groups of people that are interested in stuff
1. DIYer
Very basic DIYer with an interest. A few hand tools bought from one of the sheds, electric drill, and possibly a router and jig saw. Does projects every now and again probably driven by what's needed to be done in the house. Seeks help only for the projects that their working on. No general interest in learning about the craft. Mainly driven by avoiding the cost of trades people.

1. Enthusiast
The enthusiast, good set of tools including power tools. Own some form of table saw / band saw, router table. Retires at most opportunities to the shed / workshop, actively seeks out forums and general wood working information.

2. Hand Tool Specialist.
Then there are the hand tool enthusiasts / developers of tradition skills. Probably have or aspire to own premier hand tools / real high quality vintage stuff. Will have a tool cabinet that covers the majority of tools required for any project and will buy a set of rounds and hollows if they can find / afford them. Know how to make joints and are on a path of becoming increasing competent at using them. Extremely knowledgable, it's their main interest, and seek to become experts in every area. Looking for content on complex problems.

3. Professional Workshop
Wood work enthusiast / professional with workshop. Will have a good selection of hand tools but also a selection of professional wood working machines. Will have a table saw, P/T, Router table or spindle Moulder, Band Saw, Pillar drill. A greed selection of power tools which probably extends to Dimino or similar.

4. Professional without workshop.
As above but will have transportable table saw etc, Festool or high end interactions power tools. On site hand tools, stuff they don't worry too much about if they get lost, I.e. Disposable hand saws, Aldi chisels etc.

I think that by carefully working through a segmentation of the market you will create a really good understanding of each category of woodworker there is and what will appeal to the.

The next step is then to equip yourself with the tools that the sectors you want to cover will use. Don't use, or show, or have anywhere I. Your videos anything that would not found in the Tom chest of the sector you've selected. Make sure that everything you demonstrate / produce has actually been made on the tools the sector has. I.e. Don't use a P/T secretly if your creating Hand Tool content. There is for instance no point in doing content and videos on a Soindle moulder if your target audience is the hand tools specialist. Equally pick a tool that inky a very few in your sector will have, unless a sponsor is paying you to plug it!

To generate income, you need to know who your audience is, by tailoring your presentation videos to attract the segment you want you will not only build a larger audience quickly but it will have a specific characteristic.

The characteristic of the audience is of great interest to both companies looking to advertise their stuff but also wanting to place their branded stuff in your videos. Approach a manufacturer with a plan of content your looking to produce, highlight and show what the content is you've created and the size of the audience you have at the moment. You need to make it easy for the people who control advertising and marketing. Start small, and ask for a selection of power tools in return for featuring their use in your content. It's very cheap for them to do this and your likely to succeed. Then go npback and show how you've grown your audience with a new project, suggest advertising / sponsorship deal. Make any deal specific to the project and be ire pared to either only get a small contribution or nothing. Build your audience and keep knocking on doors. A few thousand followers is worth a lot of they have a specific characteristic that you can define. Another approach is to approach a shed for instance and suggest that you will do a series of videos that is season specific (build a barbecue for instance) where the plans, materials and costing uses their stuff and every tool you will use comes from them. Suggest they link it to one of their promotions that you can also make a feature of.

I think looking for people to pay to view is a bizarre business model. It's like asking someone to buy something that's hidden in a bin liner. Until you have seen it you don't know whether it's worth the money, when you have seen it you don't need to spend the money. Would you pay for something that you don't know you want? I know I wouldn't!

The model should be about attracting advertising and sponsorship. That's the money spinner, and I've seen scant evidence that anyone has actually worked out how to both segment, target and then generate an income from looking at it as a proper business would do.

You don't sell barbecues in winter or snow shovels in summer. This seems obvious, but consider Paul Sellers as an example. He does some really good stuff, however, whose his target audience? What's he actually trying to achieve as a business? I personally don't know. His content fluctuates all over the place and he is IMO trying to appeal to every sector, as a consequence I can see no evidence of product placement or advertising that is highly attracted to his blog / uTube content. The closest I've seen to someone working to a business model are the Wood Whisperer and the unPluggedworkshop chap. The WW is sponsored by Powermattic and others, he's looking at the Enthusiast I believe however some of his stuff is also biased towards the Professional Workshop. He Presents and promotes the brands that sponsors him exclusively in everything he does. The UnPlugged has targeted the Hand Tool Specialist and he promotes Veritas tools when ever a sharp implement touches wood.

When searching uTube / the Internet people are looking either for techniques or how to do stuff. Content should be driven by this rather than thinking of it as some form of classical educational cariculum
Interesting what you said about the workshop build....n

IIRC Steve didn't know what he was doing when he started.....

;-)

Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk
 
I got to ask, although I may regret it....what does TL,DR stand for?

I think the way in which Steve presents his work is both engaging, refreshing and extremely interesting. He has a humility and honesty that truly shines through that makes everyone who has follow his shed thread wait with anticipation for the next instalment. Would it have made it more interesting if he'd been an expert to begin with, I don't think so, because there was interaction and discussion on how to resolve each problem that arose. The amount of expertise that can be gleaned from the thread is fantastic, and by engagement everyone felt that they had a little ownership of the shed. That's priceless for building a strong following.

What I'm suggesting is this form of presentation rather than the normal 'do this and then do that tutorial' which always creates derision and negative feedback as everyone is an 'expert' and there is no better sport for some than bashing others opinions.

Anyway, apologise if my suggestions are off track, or cause offence.
 
There are some fine woodworking videos on Youtube but we really need more British ones that do stuff the "British" way.....you can't beat Steve's videos and they are the sort of thing you keep going back to unlike the watch it once and then move onto another woodworker.
I certainly would pay (and have) for British made videos......its much easier trying to find certain tools/brands of products when they are available in your own country.
Cheers
Brian
 
deema":3623p7i6 said:
phil.p":3623p7i6 said:
TL;DR

Sorry, - too long, didn't read.

Fair comment, I'll take it on board.

Unfortunately I don't know of a snappy Internet abbreviation for "I thought your lengthy post was interesting and informative, and I wouldn't worry too much about cutting it down to suit people with no free time and/or attention span", but... well. I guess it's probably the wrong audience for a snappy Internet abbreviation! ;-)

Still, ITYLPWIAIAIWWTMACIDTSPWNFTAOAS.
 
HOJ":1g16rgo6 said:
Might be worth a look at how Chris Pye operates.

http://www.chrispye-woodcarving.com/home

Doesn't look that much different to Steve's current site and no new newsletter since March 2013 or am I missing something ?


I'd say Richard Maguire is the man to look at

I caught up with Richard and Helen at the European Woodworking Show recently and this latest venture has proved more successful than they could have hoped for

http://www.davidbarronfurniture.blogspo ... oject.html

Film one project, charge people a one off fee for lifetime use.

Once you've sorted your paywall / hosting fees just sit back and count the money.

When sales start to slide, time to film project number 2.
 
Steve Maskery":23qza22f said:
It's easy to produce tat every month, but I don't want to do that, there is enough junk in the world without me adding to it.

I waited a bit for somebody else to comment, I don't think they have so I will; from a business point of view if you want to make some money back make what sells, if you want to make what makes you feel good, then you pay, or you could mix business with pleasure and film popular clips/tips AND the sort of stuff that you would buy. Different people have different values, don't be a victim of snobbery and undervalue more basic work; some like it and are prepared to pay for it, their willingness to pay is just as valid as your willingness to provide that service.
 
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