Lie-Nielsen Chisels-anyone else having problems?

[Bean]

Hi all
I have took to the slope and bought a lie nelson bevel edge Chisel, I am reaaly pleased with it, it fits my hand a treat and the length is just right for me.

But the edge is starting to crumble, has anyone else had this problem or will I be the only one to complain to him.

 

[Mirboo]

Hi Bean,

I have a few Lie-Nielsen chisels and so far I have not had the problem you describe. I sharpen the bevel edge chisels with a 30 degree primary bevel and a micro bevel of 1 to 2 degrees.

I have read that A2 steel is unsuitable for use with the kind of sharpening angles usually applied to paring chisels (i.e. down around 20 degrees and lower) and the result of sharpening chisels with angles this low can be a crumbling edge. As I've already stated though, I haven't sharpened my chisels with this kind of bevel and I have not experienced the problems described.

What bevel angle are you using when you sharpen your chisel? What are you using the chisels for when you suffer the crumbling edge?

 

[Alf]

What bevel angle are you using when you sharpen your chisel? What are you using the chisels for when you suffer the crumbling edge?

Them's the vital questions. And possibly "what are you using it on?"

Cheers, Alf

 

[CONGER]

Heads up... I have crumbling LN chisels... primary angle 25ish... secondary angle a hair more... am rather surprised.

Also surprised (suspicious) at how (VERY) fast the chisels were dealt with on my TORMEK (and later on NORTON stones / paper)... I had anticipated that the A2 steel would be a pig to deal with... but it melted away!

I have not addressed this with TLN... was waiting until I had time after Christmas... but now that Mr Bean has raised his concerns, I thought I might come public.

-gerard-

 

[MikeW]

I would simply steepen the bevels as Ian has.

They come with a low grind, but do need a steeper secondary, which you can elect to become a single bevel with time if you don't like two bevels. They are bench chisels if nothing else.

A small secondary bevel will still allow good paring as the chip will only deflect a short way up the bevel. Same with a heavier chip.

Take care, Mike

 

[Handrubbed]

This topic seems to pop up every so often on forums. I have the chisels and have had no problems with the factory grind, which I believe was 30 degrees. I know a secondary bevel is recommended.

One suggestion that has been proffered is that the heat treatment spoils the first little bit of the steel at the business end of the chisel. Many have reported that the good sound steel is there if you hone back to it. Contact LN if you have doubts about your chisels. You will be satisfied in the end.

 

[dchenard]

Interesting, I had a discussion elsewhere with Paul Kierstead recently about this...

Right off the bat, I was surprised and non-plussed when I read on the LN site that the chisels come with a 30 degree bevel, and that a 5 degree micro-bevel should be added. Try to chop dovetails with that...

I think Paul experienced a bit of chipping on his chisels (he'll chime in if I misquoted him). Then again, at the Ottawa Wood Show last weekend Rob Cosman was touting the virtues of the LN chisels, saying that these are the first chisels that he could put a 17 degree bevel angle on them, and hold that edge while chopping DTs. Quite contradictory if you ask me...

Maybe, that is my suspicion, that there might be a bit of QC problem at LN, and that some of the chisels come out of the factory improperly tempered.

In any case I am now into Japanese chisels (received my first Imai yesterday), and I bought one LN chisel just so that I can make direct comparisons. The LN chisel feels very good in the hand, but I haven't worked with it yet.

DC

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Mike

Can you compare - or at least describe - your experience with the Blue Spruce dovetail chisels. These are also A2 steel. They are designed specifically for paring dovetails. I know you - and others - like them. Based on the high praise of many I have ordered (but not yet received) a set. I could have bought LN (similar price) but the high bevel angle required for the LN put me off these.

The question I have is whether there is a difference in edge holding with these two brands, both of which use A2 steel. Is the bevel angle the Blue Spruce also recommended at 30 degrees?

The other observation is that, since traditional paring chisels are honed at 20 degrees, the concerns that a 30 degree bevel will not facilitate ease of paring is to some degree recognised as unfounded since this is the traditional angle of Japanese paring chisels.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

The other observation is that, since traditional paring chisels are honed at 20 degrees

The lowest angle I've read of (in old sources) would be grind at 20, hone at 25, or "single bevel" at 25, for fine work.

BugBear

 

[MikeW]

Hey Derek--good to see you around here more...

I have honed my Blue Spruce once since receiving it. If I wasn't date challenged, I would know how long that was

Paring for the back's mortise and squaring the hole for the bolt's square shoulder isn't exactly a challenge for a chisel, but it is similar to paring cuts for DTs and other joints.

I have cleaned up 30/40 or so DTs in some Peruvian Walnut, which isn't a demanding wood. And I typically saw the waste out of a joint with a coping saw, so they were truly paring cuts.

Would I bash this chisel? Probably not because it's got a Cocobolo handle. There also is no shoulder per se on the shaft. I do use light taps.

But I think this highlights the distinction of paring and bench chisels. I would never use any of my paring chisels--the Blue Spruce included--in place of a bench chisel. I may take some light paring cuts with the bench chisels if it was in my hand, but not the other way 'round.

I also use BB's angles for my paring chisels--the dreaded Sorbys :lol:

Oh, one more thing. The wood one typically uses also should be taken into consideration. If all I pared was softer hardwoods or softwood, I too would lower the bevel angles. I haven't gotten so far down the slope I have two sets of paring and bench chisels for hard or soft woods...

Take care, Mike

 

[Bean]

In reply this chisel is ground to the factory settings with the barest seconday bevel a true mico bevel. It has been used on some air dried elm and a little paring on some ebony.
Handrubbed suggested

One suggestion that has been proffered is that the heat treatment spoils the first little bit of the steel at the business end of the chisel. Many have reported that the good sound steel is there if you hone back to it.

In that case I would suggest that LN have a production/quality issue, which needs to be addressed by themselves and not by their customers.

I will update you all on TLN's responce to my questions later

 

[woodbloke]

Have got the standard set of LN chisels, no problems with them so far, small secondary bevel at 30 deg, though am tempted to increase this to 32 deg in the light of reading this thread - Rob

 

[Philly]

I've had my set for rather a while. Used them a lot for most chiselly (is that a word? :wink: ) tasks and also have given them a good beating with the mallet.
I did find some of the chisels needed sharpening pretty quickly when I first got them but after a couple of sharpenings this seemed to pass and they now perform superbly. A gentle hone keeps them razor sharp and they hold an edge for a long, long time.
So perservere, Bean, and give them a good workout.
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Anonymous]

I never know if you hand toolers are having a laugh, 30 deg increase to 32 deg, :shock: wouldn't have a clue what angle my chisels are. :lol:

Also I'm a bit curious as to what chisels don't fit your hand nicely, even old stanleys fit quite nicely.

 

[Alf]

It has been used on some air dried elm and a little paring on some ebony.

Not necessarily edge-friendly timbers then...

 

[Colin C]

Also I'm a bit curious as to what chisels don't fit your hand nicely, even old stanleys fit quite nicely.

Senior

Have you ever tried the blue handle marples with the square handles :roll:
I am happy with my old marlpes ( boxwood handles)

 

[Anonymous]

I never know if you hand toolers are having a laugh, 30 deg increase to 32 deg, :shock: wouldn't have a clue what angle my chisels are. :lol:

Also I'm a bit curious as to what chisels don't fit your hand nicely, even old stanleys fit quite nicely.

You are not alone :roll:
I know mine are vaguely 30ish at the cutting edge but with no bevels at all :lol: just gently rounded. They are sharp though believe it or not.
I used to get visits from a keen type woodworker and he would pick tools up and wave them about and say things like "nice balance" etc. I never knew what he was talking about and I don't think he did either. All my chisels fit my hand nicely even the rubbish ones, except for the ones without handles.
Re faulty LN chisel don't worry they'll replace it just like anybody else would - but this will cause a lot of excitement in the LN enthusiasts corner if earlier threads are anything to go by :lol:

cheers
Jacob

 

[Anonymous]

Also I'm a bit curious as to what chisels don't fit your hand nicely, even old stanleys fit quite nicely.

Senior

Have you ever tried the blue handle marples with the square handles :roll:
I am happy with my old marlpes ( boxwood handles)

Just had a quick look - yes I've got several marples with squarish blue handles :shock:. Never noticed the handle shape before. I've had em for 30 years or so. Are you saying there's something wrong with them?

cheers
Jacob

 

[Colin C]

Jacob

I have use them and find them uncomfortable to use but the friend that had them was happy, by the way I dont have any LN's or any chisels like that.


I do have a set of the black handled stanley that I use for site work and like the handles on them, I just dont find the square handle comfortable.

Not saying there is any thing wrong with them

Regards Colin

 

[Colin C]

Plus the ones I had the chance to use dont hold an edge for long so I go the blue stanleys which I still have some some where