Re-plate a saw

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MickCheese

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Help from a metal worker needed

I am trying to re-plate one of my tenon saws. I have removed the old blade, filed the new blade to shape but am now stuck.

I want to drill the two holes for the saw nuts.

I have punched a dot, got out my best HSS drills and not even managed to scratch the surface of the plate.

I'm using a handheld drill at it's slowest speed with a 4mm drill bit.

Is it a cobalt drill I need?

Mick
 
Hi Mick -

It is very much easier to punch holes in thin sheet. If you drill a hole the right size or just a tad over in a small, steel block, hold the block in the vice and punch through with a round, flat ended punch into the hole in the block.

It will stretch the steel out on the exit side so this will need to be hammered back flat. I know it might sound daunting but is surprisingly easy with a bit of practise. The hardest part is getting the punch and hole lined up when you can't see the hole for the saw. :shock: But if it's not lined up, it won't go.

Finding a friendly soul with a fly press might be preferable but doing it yourself, by hand is a great trick once practised a bit. I wonder how Pedder does it ???
 
Drilling sheet material, especially hard sheet material, is a pretty challenging task. As Richard says, punching is a good option, but it does need some special kit rigged up to get reasonable accuracy of positioning and a good finish to the edge.

For a one-off job, I think I'd be tempted to drill a smaller hole (3mm, say) with either a Cobalt HSS drill or a masonry drill. Use something solid clamped behind the hole to receive the drill - a block of mild steel or similar chunk of solid scrap (a very hard wood might just do) - because the drill will 'catch' as it breaks through if you don't. That will leave a ragged edge at best, at worst it'll snatch the drill out of your hand and probably break the bit. So clamp the job down very firmly, and very close to the hole so that the sheet can't lift as the drill breaks through (a piece of something hard with a 1/2" hole to poke the drill through would help, so you end up with a sandwich of two solid packers and the sawblade as the filling, clamped up tight). Lubricant helps too - a proprietary metal cutting compound like Trefolex or Rocol RTD if you've got any, but even a drop of oil will help a bit if you haven't.

Once you've got the pilot holes in, push the handle into place, and use the holes in the handle as a guide to file out the rest of the material. You'll have to start with a needle file, then maybe a small fine-toothed rat-tail file - finish with the biggest round file you can get into the hole. It'll go quicker than you think, and with a bit of care you can end up with nicely finished holes in the blade, accurately aligned with the handle holes. Keep filing until the sawscrews just - only just - go through.

DON'T try to drill full size unless you build a jig with drill guides to stop the drill wandering - in sheet stuff, it'll go all sorts of ways as it breaks through.

Good luck!
 
You know what the 'net is like, you read something, remember it, and then forget just where you read it. Don't ask me where I read this, or whether it works. The context was a fellow making a frame saw, wondering how to put holes in the blade. The answer was to put a six", large, nail with its point cut off into the drill pres. This was run into the 'blade' until the 'blade' blued. At this point the blued area was softened to the point at which it could be drilled with a HSS twist drill. Apparently the operation was successful. I have not needed to do this and so cannot say that it will work. Should the need arise I will certainly be trying the method out.
xy
 
Just thought I'd say, what ever you do make sure the work piece is clamped very very well, and if your using an electric hand drill put it in a drill stand. The best thing is to use a proper drill press and clamp, this is safe. If its not clamped safely you could loose a finger or two if the thin sheet catches on the bit and spins round like a motorised knife.
 
Now you have two reasons to stop by for a coffee....you need to use this:

DSC_1849.JPG


I haven't used it on spring steel but I put a perfect hole in 2mm steel (with a bit of a strain!) with it so it should work fine!

DSC_1850.JPG


Cheers

Jim
 
Just to fully agree with Dangermouse. The only thing I would add is that it is a good idea to clamp the blade in such a way that the 'free' end is resting against the pillar of the drill. It saves a brown trouser moment when the thing does spin, and it saves a ding to the back of the blade at the same time.
xy
 
Richard T":238kqgtq said:
That's an interesting thingamajobby Jim - does it just punch one size or are there extra bits?

Indeed! It's a Roper Whitney punch...'Merican of course.



Click image for link to their website page for the modern version.

Another bootfair find for a few bob with the thought that "I could use that one decade!" :mrgreen:

The hole looks like "saw screw" size...but I didn't measure it. 8)

You can change the little insert for various sizes within a range.

Jim
 
MickCheese":3z5x0f2h said:
Help from a metal worker needed

I am trying to re-plate one of my tenon saws. I have removed the old blade, filed the new blade to shape but am now stuck.

I want to drill the two holes for the saw nuts.

Hi Mick,

I use a handpunch up to 0,5mm:

IMG_0203.JPG


This was bought via Ebay UK and a fellow from ukw helped me, to get it cross noth sea.

Thicker blades get drilled with King universal drill bits: http://www.kingwerkzeuge.de/universalbohrer.php

These are sharpened masonry drill bits, wich you can easily make yourself, if you have abench grinder. A friend of mine even drill plane blades with them.

Cheers Pedder
 
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. This afternoon I tried a 2.5mm cobalt drill............. And broke it almost immediately.

The 4mm one would not even mark the plate.

I think I will take Jim up on his kind offer and arrange to pop over to him next time I'm in his area and get him to punch it. I can also take my dado plane and get him to help me set it up too so kill two birds with one stone.

I have to admit the thought of getting through the plate, catching the hole and watching as it turns into a very sharp windmill did fill me with a little trepidation.

Regards

Mick
 
Sure Mick...you are most welcome. I am working this weekend coming but apart from that fairly free after tomorrow.

Nice to see the Meister Saw Smith uses the modern version of mine! A pound well spent! :mrgreen:

If that doesn't work we can always mill a hole in it! 8) (you have no idea how long I have waited to say that!) :p

Jim
 
You seem to be sorted, but in case your sawplate also defeats Jim's punch, have you considered asking a local fabricators or garage* if they can do it for you? There's at least a fighting chance that they'll have a Stellite, TCT or even diamond tipped bit that's up to the task...

*It would have to be that rare kind of garage that can still fix Everything if neccesary, I suspect many mechanics will no longer have the need for a drill-press
 
Would the sort of hole punch used to put holes in car body panels prior to joining them as imitation spot welds be any good? Can't remember what the tool is called, but it looks like a modern cheap version of Jimi's device
 
I will try the punch on a piece of spring steel I have knocking about and see if it does the job and measure the diameter just in case.

Will let you know

Cheers

Jim
 
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