Woodford Tooling - any experience? Damage from broken blade

[mowog]

Hi all,

After some general advice about what to do.

Late last October I purchased some new blades from "Woodford Woodworking Machinery & Tooling Ltd" for my planer-thicknesser. Not very long after fitting these new blades, one of them shattered at high speed. Remarkably I wasn't hit by any of the shrapnel, but alas my poor machine was fairly terminally damaged. My understanding is that in this sort of case the seller bears responsibility for the damage to my equipment under rules regarding 'consequent loss'.

I contacted Woodford and got a reply from Roy Arrowsmith telling me that they had liability insurance, and to return the damaged blades and send as many photos of the damage as possible as well as a written account. This all seemed very positive at the time, but since then I have heard nothing from their insurer, and whenever I contact Roy I am told that 'these things take time', and that my case may have been held up when their insurance broker moved offices. I first contacted them on the 20th November, so I would have expected to hear something by now, even if was just confirmation of receipt of my details.

I haven't been able to actually speak to Roy - I seem to have no luck getting through on the phone. However, he comes across as a perfectly reasonable man in his emails. Despite this I do worry that I am being fobbed off, and now I even wonder if there is an insurer at all. Could it have been a way to get me to send them the evidence? I just don't know.

My question is, has anyone else had to make a claim like this? And also, has anyone else dealt with Woodford Tooling?

Advice I've had elsewhere is to proceed in the Small Claims Court for the cost of the damaged machine. But that seems quite heavy-handed if this is just a small business (probably run almost entirely by Mr Arrowsmith), and it would obviously be much nicer not to have to do that. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance - all advice gratefully received...

 

[deema]

I’ve met Roy a few times and done business with him. Never had a problem hat needed resolution, in my dealings I always found him to be a man of his word.

I suspect that Roy will have contacted the manufacturer about the problem and they will have sent them the blades you returned for material analysis. They will want to establish if there was a material or manufacturing defect that would explain the incident. Clearly if there is they are potentially looking at a product recall something that is actually very difficult and expensive to carry out. Most companys before setting out on this course of action needs to be absolutely certain of the cause especially if a recall is under an product liability insurance claim.

Normally in these cases the company hand it over to their insurers who insist that all correspondence goes through them. They will make a counter claim on the manufacturer. This takes a lot of time and they don’t move quickly. If you start down the small claims court they will most certainly clam up. If you have sent back the knives you won’t be able to prove your case unless they provide you with the evidence to hang them by....which is unlikely. If you ask for the knives back they will probably end up misplaced / lost by the insurers.

Best course of action is to write to them with a ‘Re: Without Prejudice’ and offer a solution to the issue. If it were me I’d write something along the lines of: to settle my claim fully I would like you to consider making a payment of £x to cover the following damage.........agreement would represent full and final settlement for any claims now or in the future with regard to this event. Please would you respond before x/y/2018 after which I will consider you to have declined my offer. I’m neither a lawyer or legally qualified in anyway, so please don’t take this as advise

 

[Brandlin]

This seems to be very straightforwards

You were sold a product that did not perform as advertised and has caused damage. Your contract of sale is with the retailer and thats where your rights are defined in law.

The fact that the retailer may have insurance or not is irrelevant to your right and your claim.

The sequence is that you make a claim on the person who sold you the product. They should resolve that with you. If he is insured, then he makes a claim on the insurance to cover his losses. His insurance is to help protect him and refund him for loses, it is categorically NOT the fund that is used to pay you.

As this was last October and nothing has moved, i believe you are entirely within your rights to take the next step which is to proceed to small claims court. This is precisely the kind of situation that small claims court is for. I do not believe there is a time limit. In reality though 2 months from you contacting him is not long, and it does take time, but it sounds as though his communication could be signifcantly better.

Naturally it would be civil for oyu to inform them that if they do not refund you and provide payment for the damage within say 14 days, that this is the course you will follow. I would also add that you're a member of various clubs and forums and you would hate their reputation to be damaged by the obvious administrative slip up that has prevented them from meeting their legal obligations.

If, as suggested, the retailer is contacting the manufacturer for further tests or evidence - that is again his choice. It in no way affects your claim with him. If he wishes to delay until he gets test results back - then he has that choice, but he is clearly leaving a dissatisfied customer that may damage his reputation. Most retailers will deal with their customer, take the potential hit and then resolve things with their wholesaler (who will in turn have insurance). If he is waiting for a manufacturer / wholesaler response then in effect the only thing he can be doing is preparing to challenge your claim or support his claim on them.

There is one complication as i see it in your situation. Their product has failed in use, so there remains some small question of how the product was installed and operated. As the planer blades are installed by you and attached to a 3rd party piece of equipment the insurer would want to satisfy himself that you or the planer were not the cause of the failure. For example was the blade not tight and therefor worked loose and shattered when it hit the machine? The retailer will certainly have to provide evidence to the insurer to make his claim on his policy. However he does NOT have to do that in order to compensate you. The situation in a small claims court would be that you would have to provide reasonable evidence that your loss is a consequence of the failed product. If as you say, you have all the photographs and trail of communications then this would probably be sufficient, but if he decides to fight you be prepared for the debate.


EDIT:

I hope you didnt send him all of the broken product back? I'd have kept some in case things escalate and you need to be able to undertake (or threaten to undertake) your own tests.

 

[marcros]

Did you buy the blades as a business or as yourself?

Do you have the details of the manufacturer of the blades? You may need this to make a claim. I presume that the blades were not own branded/marked as "Woodford"? Do you still have any parts of the blade in your possession?

What is the value of the damage. It is not sufficient to simply conclude that the whole machine is unviable to repair, unless parts are not available. You may end up with that conclusion but it is worth getting a quote.

Be very careful, there is some information in this thread that is not 100% correct, or is not complete. For instance, nobody has told you on what basis you can make a claim.

 

[mowog]

Hi guys,

Thank you very much indeed for the replies - I really do appreciate the advice.

Good to hear from someone who has actually met Mr Arrowsmith: suggests at least that there probably isn't anything nefarious afoot, at least with regard to Woodford Tooling. Though as has been pointed out I can in no way assume that the insurer will act honourably. Sounds like the best next step is a carefully worded letter setting out what I am claiming for.

To answer those questions above, I bought the blades for myself, I'm just a hobbyist. I do still have part of one blade, though I don't know where it is. When it exploded there was one large shard that I couldn't locate. I haven't swept up since so it must still be somewhere in my workshop.

In terms of reparability, the force of the impact actually shattered the back of one of the table castings. It's quite an old machine, so I can't imagine a new one is readily available. Bit sad really - my uncle left it to me in his will, so it had quite a bit of sentimental value.

Here are the blades: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151570665139

And here is some of the damage...

 

[marcros]

The fact that you bought them as part of your hobby makes it a bit easier.

You need to look at 2 bits of law. For the blades, the consumer rights act. You can't claim the damage on this, just the cost of the defective blades.

For the damage, the consumer protection act. You cannot claim the cost of the blades on this. This is a claim against the manufacturer, unless the blades are marked as Woodford or imported by Woodford from outside the EU.

There are plenty of online guides to tell you what you need to prove/show. The which site looked pretty good when I had a Google.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I only have very limited experience of Woodford, I bought some planer blades for my Hammer and Felder planers from Woodford. They were half the price of Felders but very poor quality. The lady in the office said she would refund me but they never did, life is too busy for me to chase these things down I just won't buy from them again.

I believe Roy now lives in OZ so not easy to get hold of and he runs the company remotely.

I have gone back to buying my blades from Felder but try and buy during sales if possible.

Cheers Peter

 

[mowog]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but just wanted to update this, if for no other reason than to provide a written warning to anyone else thinking of buying from Woodford Woodworking Machinery & Tooling Limited.

I took the advice of the very helpful people who responded so far, and set out a formal letter detailing my claim, and sent it recorded delivery. I included the cost of the blades, the postage, and the cost of the cheapest equivalent planer-thicknesser I could find. Sadly, this too was completely ignored.

I think my only option now is to proceed to a claim through the Small Claims Court, but from what I've read it would still be possible for Woodford to simply not pay up, even if I win. Pretty depressing.

I would really like to bring a claim, as a point of principle as much as anything, but I worry that I'll just be throwing good money after bad.

 

[marcros]

If you get a judgement in your favour you can pay for enforcement. This is added to the bill for the other side.