Windsor Chairs

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El Barto":3guh5qbv said:
Is there a difference in using Wych Elm and English Elm for a seat and in general?

Not a huge difference, they're both very suitable, but I find Wych Elm to be a bit harder, heavier, and more straight grained, so not quite as good for the elaborate saddling, low weight, and split resistance you want in a windsor seat. But that's just my experience and not necessarily representative of all the individual boards out there!
 
El Barto":3qd39by3 said:
My main inspiration for getting in to it was this guy. His balance of modern and classic shapes is perfect to my eye. This quote of his on Windsors specifically spoke to me in a way that other areas of woodworking hadn't: "In Windsors, if it looks right, it is right". When I read that I immediately wanted to try it for myself.

There's so much to like about that. From the "atomic" legs to the crinoline stretcher pushed high up underneath the seat, I agree it really is pretty special.
 
Bricking - apologies if I am being dense, but do you mean like several courses of bricks? Thanks.
 
disco_monkey79":3ugwsi9j said:
Bricking - apologies if I am being dense, but do you mean like several courses of bricks? Thanks.

Exactly right, it's a pretty old technique dating back at least to the 17th century when it was a common method for building up a curved component on which to lay a veneer.
 
custard":2nbqjbcm said:
Bodgers":2nbqjbcm said:
Best book I've found is Chairmaking and Design by Jeff Miller (ISBN 0 85442 155 6). Covers basic design issues and has a number of decent designs that can be copied or built upon depending on personal taste.
I have the 2nd edition of this, yeah great book. Jeff is the man when it comes to chairs.




As far as I know that's the only book on jointed chair making!

It's a useful primer, however IMO it's ultimately disappointing. It goes only so far but then stops short of sharing the stuff you really need to know. Jeff Miller clearly knows all the trade tricks, because some of his more complex designs incorporate them, but he doesn't explain any of these in this book. Consequently you're left with only simple and fairly rudimentary designs, the reader isn't given the methods and techniques necessary to tackle really interesting chair designs.

I'll give you some examples of what's not in his book but is needed for successful chair making.

Firstly, take a look at this chair.



The back bars (the vertical splats in the back) need to be tenoned into both the crest rail and the rear seat rail. But how do you do that with professional, gap free joinery? You can't work from the plan or rod, if components are curved in two directions a two dimensional plan won't deliver the precise dimensions, and even if it's all in a single plane then by this stage in a chair build discrepancies will have inevitably crept in which means you have to work from the piece of furniture in front of you rather than from a plan. There are a whole suite of cabinet making techniques that are used to overcome this specific problem, but they're not covered in the Jeff Miller book.

Or take a second example, illustrated in this chair.



If you look at the side rail that joins the front and back legs there's a very slight "twist" as shown by the blue lines. It's only a few degrees, and if you weren't looking for it you'd never spot it, but it's a very common and important constructional element in many jointed chairs. Again, there are several established techniques to deal with this and the layout complexities that come with it, but you won't find them in the Jeff Miller book.

Finally, have a look at the corner blocks in this photo.



Like a lot of case furniture many chairs have corner blocks to add strength in critical areas. But unlike case furniture the corner blocks in chairs are not at 90 degrees, they may have compound angles or even curves, yet to achieve a good glue bond they need to be precisely scribed to mate against other components. Chair making has evolved loads of tricks and techniques to achieve this, but there's no mention of them in the Jeff Miller book.

I could go on, but you get the picture. The Jeff Miller book is okay as a very basic introduction to non-windsor chair making, but it really needs a second volume to take things to the next level. Unfortunately as far as I know there's no book out there that shares this information. There is a half way house in that a Canadian woodworker (I forget his name, I think it's Michael something?) has published the techniques for making jointed chairs that simplify things considerably by separating the seat from the chair sub-structure, that's well worth exploring if you're interested in chair making, but I don't believe that the really critical details for making full-fat versions of jointed chairs are either on the web or in print. Little hints and allusions here or there, but no single source that guides you through the entire process.
Interesting. One of my next projects is going to be a simplish chair based on a Hans Wegner GE882 design, but with a papercord seat that my wife will be weaving.

http://img.archiexpo.com/images_ae/phot ... 866581.jpg

I bought it as a primer to either break me into chair making or scare me off. Now you've scared me off!

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk
 
Not sure about the F&C cover chair - my first thought on seeing it was that it needed a couple of bricks under the back legs. Not sure about the dimples, either. But there you go - can't please all of the people all of the time!

Digressing slightly, I find F&C is quite a good read these days, and worth the subscription. A good balance of restoration work, contemporary cutting-edge craft, older tools, history, techniques and projects. I was particularly impressed by Mark Dunning's Corona Cabinet in January's issue - a beautifully elegant piece.
 
Bodgers":1nap22xo said:
I bought it as a primer to either break me into chair making or scare me off. Now you've scared me off!

I'd hate do that. Three suggestions.

-The Hans Wegner chair is a good first step, and you can simplify it still further, you need to think carefully about the crest rail and the joinery for the rear seat rail, but it's all do-able. The key thing is to draw out a full size plan, and resolve all the joinery details in sketch form before you even pick up a tool.
-There's a chap on this forum, Chris Tribe who posts as Mr T, he's made an exquisite Danish Modern style chair and given a great deal of guidance on how to tackle the more complicated bits like the elaborately curved crest rail.
-Michael Fortune (he's the Michael "something" that I couldn't remember!), he's put a lot of development into chairs where the seat is separated from the undercarriage, like this,

Michael Fortune Chair.jpg


at a stroke that makes life much, much simpler; plus he's published a few articles giving step by step guidelines.


Good luck!
 

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Thats how I made my dining chairs.

Xmas Chair maquette and finished one by Racers, on Flickr

It makes the joinery much simpler.

You can make a soft wood mock up to refine the design, just screw it together. I had to add a curved back as it was uncomfortable and adjust the seat angle all done on the maquette.

This is all the parts it gives you a better look at the construction.

Chair parts by Racers, on Flickr

Pete
 
custard":3boyatle said:
Bodgers":3boyatle said:
I bought it as a primer to either break me into chair making or scare me off. Now you've scared me off!

I'd hate do that. Three suggestions.

-The Hans Wegner chair is a good first step, and you can simplify it still further, you need to think carefully about the crest rail and the joinery for the rear seat rail, but it's all do-able. The key thing is to draw out a full size plan, and resolve all the joinery details in sketch form before you even pick up a tool.
-There's a chap on this forum, Chris Tribe who posts as Mr T, he's made an exquisite Danish Modern style chair and given a great deal of guidance on how to tackle the more complicated bits like the elaborately curved crest rail.
-Michael Fortune (he's the Michael "something" that I couldn't remember!), he's put a lot of development into chairs where the seat is separated from the undercarriage, like this,



at a stroke that makes life much, much simpler; plus he's published a few articles giving step by step guidelines.


Good luck!
Thanks! This is great info

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk
 
loads of great info in this thread
scared the hell out of me
and put me off considering it
back to my cutlery box......in new year (must finish one project at least)
maybe I will just look out for something suitable on ebay for dining chairs

Steve
 
SteveF":umrwgr82 said:
loads of great info in this thread
scared the hell out of me
and put me off considering it
back to my cutlery box......in new year (must finish one project at least)
maybe I will just look out for something suitable on ebay for dining chairs

Steve

Nooo! Imagine how great it'd feel to sit in chairs you made yourself.
 
Here's a very interesting chair, almost a hybrid between a windsor and jointed chair. Bugbear alerted me to the maker with respect to a different piece of furniture, but this one seems appropriate for this particular thread. Furthermore it covers the entire build process from beginning to end. After watching this any reasonably competent woodworker would be able to draw a set of full size plans and build what looks like a very pleasing chair,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRkQljHNl1Q
 
After I got over the shock of how the seat and back looked while still all square, I rather like that. The chairs look like they would last several lifetimes too.
 
It does look like two different chairs, but the lower half does match his stools benches etc so in the same room they would look good.

Pete
 
Sheffield Tony":33to12gx said:
I know what Andy means. "Shock" is the word - I was wondering "Where do the electrodes go".

Ah, yes, that's it Tony. :D
I knew I'd seen a chair like that but couldn't place it.
 
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