When is "solid oak" not solid?

[dickm]

Upgrading our 1999 kitchen to take account of extension and being my usual cheapskate self am using secondhand "Shaker Oak" doors etc from Gumtree/ebay. Got a really nice set of expensive but proper solid oak ones from Inverness, and another set, advertised as solid oak from further south. Some doors needed alteration, and on cutting through the stiles on one was surprised that the end grain and the surface grain didn't correspond. Looking closely, the stiles and rails (which no doubt were sold as solid oak when new) were actually built up from edge jointed (and in one case, end to end butt jointed) oak strip of random sizes, then wrapped in a 0.5mm-ish oak veneer.
No real problem with this, as they don't look too bad, but it's an interesting interpretation of "solid".

 

[NazNomad]

I never understood how anything described as solid wood can be 'solid wood' if it's 10% glue.

Check out these solid wood table legs...

 

[Droogs]

When it's sitting in Oak Furniture Land

 

[rafezetter]

I've been wondering about this situation for a while as the average person won't be able to easily differentiate between what we do as "workers of solid wood" and the stuff that comes from OFL and their ilk (plus "solid wood flooring" which clearly, isn't)

This has the inherent problem of devaluing items made from actual solid wood and will only continue to increase the difficulties small producers have in getting a fair price for their work.

It would be interesting to see if there is a case to be made to the advertising standards agency that what OFL sells is not inherently "solid wood"; and even though it may be as structurally strong (maybe) that the differentiation between "solid" and "made up of component parts" should be made far clearer.

After all - plywood isn't sold as "solid wood" now is it, so there is already a precedence that the phrase "solid wood" which has always previously been taken by the general public as "one whole section of tree" should remain just that and anything that isn't should not be legally called "solid wood".

Any legal eagles fancy taking a poke at that with a (solid wood) pointy stick?

 

[Yorkshire Sam]

You may notice that the latest adverts dont stipulate 'solid' wood (while they intimate it) but now say 'no veneer in here'!
But to me even that is questionable... surely wood made from layers of wood is a kind of veneer is it not?

 

[RogerS]

I have already made a successful complaint to the ASA regarding OFL and their misleading website was altered as a result.

There are ongoing investigations regarding other claims and advertising being made by OFL. Other than that, I can't say any more.

 

[RobinBHM]

Does it matter if parts of furniture are made from laminating rather than 1 solid piece?

I would think laminated timber utilises more of the tree and is therefore better for the environment. Its also true that laminated timber is more stable.

Nobody complains that solid wood worktops are made from jointed staves, not full length ones, so I dont see it matters that a leg of a table has an engineered core.

It could be argued that furniture containing laminated parts should be labled with a description that differentiates them from solid wood of one piece. But is a customer being missold if furniture that is labled solid wood is actually engineered. In the case of OFL, every visual piece is jointed from small pieces so its pretty obvious.

 

[RogerS]

Does it matter if parts of furniture are made from laminating rather than 1 solid piece?

No. But the OFL marketing does not make this clear at all. To the uninitiated, they wont realise that their furniture is 10% glue but then, do they care? It's cheap.

But the phrase 'solid wood' to the uninitiated is that it is from one single piece of wood. Clearly it is not.

The phrase 'No veneer in 'ere' is also disparaging and implies that something veneered is of lower quality. I think Chippendale might disagree with that.

 

[dynax]

The phrase 'No veneer in 'ere' is also disparaging and implies that something veneered is of lower quality. I think Chippendale might disagree with that.

so would most plywood manufacturers,

 

[MikeK]

The phrase 'No veneer in 'ere' is also disparaging and implies that something veneered is of lower quality. I think Chippendale might disagree with that.

This is why I don't have Chippendale furniture in my house. Well, maybe not the only reason.

 

[dickm]

Interesting discussion. My own view is that calling the stuff solid when, as someone has said, it's 10% glue is certainly misleading to the uninitiated, and allows for undercutting of makers using real solid stuff. BUT, putting on my Greenpeace hat, laminating/building up and veneering does encourage/enable the use of poorer quality/small sections of hardwood which must save on felling of prime timber. So "you pays yer money and you makes yer choice", which is fine if it's an informed choice.
In the case of my kitchen, my only real objection is that the wrapping veneer seems (has?) to be chosen for lack of interesting figure, so is very bland and dull. It's probably American white oak, at a guess, and it's a sort of pale coffee colour, not what I'd like from "Light oak" and not a terribly good match for the real oak doors. Still, that's the price of cheapskating!

 

[Neil S]

I imagine the 'no veneer in ere' statement has come from people finding out that some of their Ikea furniture is a cardboard frame with a paper thin coating of wood on it which does not stand up to any knocks or scrapes. Those products are the ones that gave veneer a bad name.

I think 10% glue must be a bigger exaggeration than the 'solid wood' claims. I'd be surprised if the glue content was over a half a percent.

-Neil

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A paper thin coating of wood? Often it isn't even wood.

 

[whiskywill]

But the phrase 'solid wood' to the uninitiated is that it is from one single piece of wood. Clearly it is not.

The only thing made of one single piece of solid wood is a piece of wood. Every table, chair, bed, desk, cabinet, cupboard etc. is made up of more than one piece of wood.

 

[woodenstx]

But the phrase 'solid wood' to the uninitiated is that it is from one single piece of wood. Clearly it is not.

The only thing made of one single piece of solid wood is a piece of wood. Every table, chair, bed, desk, cabinet, cupboard etc. is made up of more than one piece of wood.

When does a piece of wood stop being a piece of wood?

If you planked a tree and made a laminate from it to make it look like a tree again, is that a single piece of wood or multiple pieces? :lol:

deep semantics maaaaan

 

[RogerS]

But the phrase 'solid wood' to the uninitiated is that it is from one single piece of wood. Clearly it is not.

The only thing made of one single piece of solid wood is a piece of wood. Every table, chair, bed, desk, cabinet, cupboard etc. is made up of more than one piece of wood.

I think you know what I mean.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

This calls for Which Tyler, the leader of the Pedants Revolt.
I would think it reasonable for us to presume the individual components of a piece of furniture sold as solid comprise one single piece of wood, so a table with four legs has four pieces of wood in the legs, but of course that argument then breaks down when we think of furniture that is designed such that it has to have laminated parts. What if it they are post blocked? I think maybe the stuff could be sold as "oak furniture" and not "solid oak furniture"? After all you could call ply "wood" - if you were differentiating it from steel or plastic, not a plank of rosewood.

 

[rafezetter]

But the phrase 'solid wood' to the uninitiated is that it is from one single piece of wood. Clearly it is not.

The only thing made of one single piece of solid wood is a piece of wood. Every table, chair, bed, desk, cabinet, cupboard etc. is made up of more than one piece of wood.

This comment has no place here, and is deliberately obtuse. Would you use that same rational to say that a marble worktop isn't "solid" marble because it's made up of microcrystalline structures?

This thread is about whether OFL and other companies has the legal right to claim "solid" when clearly it's offcuts bundled together, just as you would not be able to claim a bag of pea gravel as "solid" stone.

Fancy buying a new set of radials for your car Whiskywill? I've mostly managed to glue them together after putting them through the shredder.....

 

[SBJ]

I think that you need to take a step back and take a deep breath!! Total non issue, really. I'd suggest that instead of taking any more time thinking about this or writing letters of complaint, you should go and buy a homeless person a coffee, or visit an elderly neighbour or just something that is worthwhile with your time.

 

[ruletheworld]

I have also notice most companies sell solid oak furniture where it is can be only 70% of oak, so you have just make sure before you are buying if it is 100% oak and if not try to get more details.