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wax question for custard and others

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sunnybob

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I have been trying find an alternative finish for my wood.
Memzey kindly gave me some of his home brewed patented eye of toad and ear of bat wax, assuring me sliced bread had no hope of competing. :lol:

I have had major problems with it and after talking to memzey at length about procedures and times, and at his suggestion, I'm throwing this question open to all who use wax as a final coating.
Have you ever noticed that temperature affects the finish?

After following the instructions very carefully (several times! :shock: :shock: ), I cant get a shine of any quality and this wax will not dry. After 2 days it still marks from handling. This is on Bubinga, sanded to 220 grit.
Bear in mind I am now getting into summer proper, 35c is a normal day, 40c will be arriving shortly. Peaking as high as 43 in august 8) ,
Is this enough to make the wax unusable for me?

I have also used shellac for the first time (as per memzey's instructions) and that went quite well, drying very quickly and leaving a reasonable finish. I'm considering using that as a final finsh?
 

CHJ

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If your wax blend has Bees Wax in it then it (the bees wax) will melt in the low 60's C, at your temperatures I would expect it to soften enough to hand mark, Bees Wax finished items often dull if regularly handled with just hand temperatures.

Carnauba wax is in the low to mid 80's.

Microcrystalline wax's are usually in the 80's or above and resist handling and water marks.
 

sunnybob

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My security clearance isnt high enough to know the content, so I will have to wait and see if Memzey can confirm or deny that allegation. :shock: :roll:
 

custard

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Chas has pretty much nailed it.

The problem with beeswax (or petroleum wax) based finishes is that, even if they don't melt, they certainly soften at hand temperatures. Consequently they can be a little unpleasant for surfaces that you'll frequently touch.

Carnauba wax fixes that problem, at least in the UK, because its higher melting point means it doesn't really begin to soften at hand temperature. The downside is that it's a lot harder to apply and buff up a genuine carnauba based hard wax (which is what memsey's wax will almost certainly be).

However, mediterranean summer temperatures mean all bets are off.

Personally I think one of the nicest finishes from a tactile point of view is shellac, I don't know why but it never seems to get sticky and even when it's super glossy it's not as slippy as you'd expect. Consequently I generally finish tool handles, boxes, and drawer pulls with shellac.
 

sunnybob

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The shellac thing is good to know. I had to order 2 litres of meths because no local stores had ever heard of it :roll:
So now at least I can use that up.
 

profchris

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This ukulele back is finished in pure shellac, and I'm far from the world's best finisher so much shinier is achievable.

My process is to wet sand, then buff up with automotive rubbing compound.

Uke back in shellac.jpeg
 

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sunnybob

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By the same token, I was looking at Osmo polyx wax oil.
Is that also affected by my weather?
 

CHJ

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I would expect hard wax oils to be stable, as they polymerize to form longer chains and should not break down once the reaction has taken place.

The Hard Wax Oil I use certainly stands up to the friction heat of Mop Burnishing to a high gloss once left to 'cure'.
 

memzey

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Sorry just seen this.
The recipe for the wax I gave to bob is one part carnauba, three parts bees wax and four parts turps. I’m not the most experienced in making this stuff but from the experiments I did, I found that much more carnauba than that makes it impossible to apply. I still have a block from the same batch and it’s great when used in Hertfordshire. Seems to me that the issue is with that blasted Cypriot heat!
 

woodbloke66

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sunnybob":1cf97lek said:
By the same token, I was looking at Osmo polyx wax oil.
Is that also affected by my weather?
I wouldn't have thought so as from my experience the heat doesn't appear to affect it, except to make it cure more quickly. I was applying the final brush coat (so reasonably thickish) to my bookcase this morning and it was bone dry when I got back to the workshop late in the afternoon. All it then needs is a final light de-nib with some 0000grade wire wool and a very thin smear of Alfie Shine over the top to finish off - Rob
 

Phil Pascoe

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I use carnauba and/or microcrystalline with pure turps (only because I like the smell) and don't tend to use beeswax any more as it is soft. There doesn't appear to be any difference in use, only in the final polish. They do need higher percentage of turps than beeswax, though.
I got my m/c on ebay - the guy doesn't sell through ebay any more, but he (still, afaik) sells direct. If anyone fancies a go, PM and I'll give you his email address.
 

sunnybob

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Woodbloke... fair enough heat doesnt affect your osmo wax, but I dont think wiltshire has ever had 6 months of 40c :shock: :shock:

Where I live you have to re write the rule book, as that icicle loving memzey knows only too well. :roll: :roll: :roll:
The In-car thermometer went to 47 yesterday. Even the plastic switches can burn your fingers at that temp, and whatever you do DONT touch the metal seat belt tang :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: 8) 8)
I love the heat, but dont envy those poor people in europe who have this at the moment, but no air con to enable them to sleep properly.
 

woodbloke66

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sunnybob":2z534exn said:
Woodbloke... fair enough heat doesnt affect your osmo wax, but I dont think wiltshire has ever had 6 months of 40c :shock: :shock:

.... to enable them to sleep properly.
Just a trifling 28 degrees C here today which must get you reaching for the thermal underwear Sunnybob :lol: :lol: I don't sleep really well either as I had an adverse reaction to statins that gave me insomnia which, thankfully, seems to be passing - Rob
 

memzey

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phil.p":39x9qz2o said:
I use carnauba and/or microcrystalline with pure turps (only because I like the smell) and don't tend to use beeswax any more as it is soft. There doesn't appear to be any difference in use, only in the final polish. They do need higher percentage of turps than beeswax, though.
I got my m/c on ebay - the guy doesn't sell through ebay any more, but he (still, afaik) sells direct. If anyone fancies a go, PM and I'll give you his email address.
I find this interesting and more than a little surprising. With my limited experimentation I would have concluded that the only way to get this to work with carnauba would be to flood it with the solvent (turps in this case) which then has its own issues as that solvent dries away on the piece. How did you manage to get a useable, pure carnauba wax polish Philip?
 

Phil Pascoe

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I just melt the m/c or carnauba with the turps. It takes more turps and a longer heating than beeswax takes, but the end product is much the same.
... the only way to get this to work with carnauba would be to flood it with the solvent (turps in this case) which then has its own issues as that solvent dries away on the piece...
That's much the same whatever the wax, surely?
 

memzey

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I guess so but I was cautious about using too much solvent in case the finish was compromised by it drying out and causing the wax to shrink after application. In uk temperatures this isn’t an issue as I get a really nice gloss finish without finger prints and the like but at the cost of being much harder to apply and buff. In the insane heat of Cyprus though I guess that recipe just doesn’t cut the mustard. I do have some m/c wax as well so perhaps my next attempt might be something along the lines of 50/50 that and the carnauba plus turps. Won’t be at all easy to apply here but bob might find a use for it!
 

sunnybob

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Just a trifling 28 degrees C here today which must get you reaching for the thermal underwear Sunnybob :lol: :lol: I don't sleep really well either as I had an adverse reaction to statins that gave me insomnia which, thankfully, seems to be passing - Rob[/quote]

If the wind drops, we can get 28c in february :D I wont get in the pool untill its 30 because i truly am what my name is. =D> =D> =D> At the moment the pool is 32, so I'm doing my aquarobics every day. =D> =D>

Interesting to hear about the reaction to statins, I have a friend who's doctor is constantly trying to get her to take them, but she is resisting due to the stories about side effects.
 

woodbloke66

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sunnybob":12bliq56 said:
Interesting to hear about the reaction to statins, I have a friend who's doctor is constantly trying to get her to take them, but she is resisting due to the stories about side effects.
Just to go off topic for a moment, I voluntarily put myself on a 3 month NHS healthy eating plan to lower cholesterol by diet rather than statins. The nurse took an armful of the red stuff :D this morning for a test and I get the results next week. Please mention to your friend that she definitely doesn't want insomnia...four nights on the trot (on several occasions) without a wink of sleep is no fun.
Profuse apologies for the slight hijack of this interesting thread - Rob
 

Phil Pascoe

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I take the maximum dose of statins with no side effects at all (along with aspirin, allopurinol, metformin, dapagliflozin,lisinopril, gliclazide, meloxicam, linagliptin and levothyroxine).
 
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