Un Vieux Etau de Sculpture

[jimi43]

I recently acquired this little beauty mentioned in the bootfair thread but I thought I would share some research I have been doing on it over the past week...

First of all..it's obviously old...and as I knew it came from France...because the guy I got it from brought it over himself...I started with the French for "vise" which is L'Etau (with an acute accent on the E).

Having got that far....applying Le Google...I found that it was a portable vise used for carving and sculpturing or L'Etau de Sculpture.....

This website FIXATION DE LA SCULPTURE SUR BOIS shows a very similar model....

The jaws would have originally been covered in cork...which was no doubt sacrificial so I think I might add this facility later...if I can find some suitable cork that size!

The construction is similar to the fixed Roubo vise in that the jaws are driven by two screws...

...one opening and closing the vise...and the other with a locking disc which allows the bottom to be set parallel to the top to make clamping more secure.

The drive screw is protected from the top by slats of wood nailed over it thus...

This prevents debris and sharp objects from falling on it for most of the time......

......and this has clearly worked very well judging by the condition of the unexposed part of the wooden screw...

Note how the damage has only occurred where the thread are exposed between the closed jaws.

The vise is made portable by the use of two further wooden screws from underneath....

These are in remarkably good condition considering the age of the vise and the vulnerability of these two screws....though both are a bit warped with age and clearly the minimum thickness of French benches of this age was far thicker than today.

I will be testing the vise out over the next few weeks and I think this will be gentle enough to put the infill panel plane in to do the final touches....

Typical...I just spent ages restoring my Zylyss vise and putting thick leather jaws on it...!!!

Oh well...c'est la vie!!! :mrgreen:

Jimi

 

[Racers]

That's a very nice vice, love the screws what wood is it made from?

Pete

 

[jimi43]

That's a very nice vice, love the screws what wood is it made from?

Pete

I haven't the faintest idea Pete...but isn't cormier typically used in the older French tools...planes and braces and the like?

I suppose it could also be hornbeam...I'm not at all familiar with continental tools let alone their woods but I think we might get some assistance from our European buddies out there....

Guys?

Jimi

 

[AndyT]

Lovely stuff!

When I saw this in your "wholesale gloat thread" I thought that it might be a French carver's vice but had not got round to looking for any evidence. The twin tenon joints resemble those in a couple of French made clamps that I bought at Richard Arnold's sale, donated by Gary of Hackney Tools fame. Photos later if you want.

Yours is certainly a worthy upgrade from "Le Workmate" as featured on the same site you linked to!

 

[jimi43]

Lovely stuff!

When I saw this in your "wholesale gloat thread" I thought that it might be a French carver's vice but had not got round to looking for any evidence. The twin tenon joints resemble those in a couple of French made clamps that I bought at Richard Arnold's sale, donated by Gary of Hackney Tools fame. Photos later if you want.

Yours is certainly a worthy upgrade from "Le Workmate" as featured on the same site you linked to!

Oh dear...I thought my re-entry into the world of bootfairs would go down like a lead balloon! I promise I will be back to work this weekend and it won't happen again! :wink:

Yes...I definitely think it is far more elegant than "le Workmate"...

....and ALFIE seem to approve....although....

...I get the distinct feeling that he sees it only as a bulk supply of "Bo Sticks"!!! :mrgreen:

Oh....and before you say anything...no...I didn't get around to making the screws for the infill (me bad!)

This week...promise!!! #-o

Jimi (and ALFIE!)

 

[rwyoung]

I recently acquired this little beauty mentioned in the bootfair thread but I thought I would share some research I have been doing on it over the past week...


Jimi

I'd suggest contacting Jameel at Benchcrafted (http://benchcrafted.com/) as they have in the past offered carving vices of somewhat similar design. Hey may have some information in his research notes that could benefit you.

 

[jimi43]

I recently acquired this little beauty mentioned in the bootfair thread but I thought I would share some research I have been doing on it over the past week...


Jimi

I'd suggest contacting Jameel at Benchcrafted (http://benchcrafted.com/) as they have in the past offered carving vices of somewhat similar design. Hey may have some information in his research notes that could benefit you.

Thanks for that suggestion...and really strange because I was JUST this moment reading his latest blog and this video on YT in particular...

http://youtu.be/3Glg4gNWnYQ

Some absolutely fascinating stuff there and at 3.50 you can see the same (or the similar cross link) vise on the bench.

Wonderful stuff indeed!

I love BC stuff...really beautiful attention to detail and research.

Thanks for the pointer.

Jimi

 

[Scouse]

Jim, the wood and quality of the carving in that top thread are almost hypnotic. Absolutely gorgeous and so good to see it put back to work. Not at all envious...!

El.

 

[lanemaux]

Hi Jimi, beautiful vice amigo. There is one little thing that bothers me a bit though. From the pictures it seems as though there is considerable moment arm on each of the clamps that attach said beauty to your bench. With all the force of a sound tightening that would seem to be the weak point likely to fall prey to tragedy. Are the arms solid and robust enough? I would very much hate to see something go pear shaped with them.

 

[jimi43]

Hi Jimi, beautiful vice amigo. There is one little thing that bothers me a bit though. From the pictures it seems as though there is considerable moment arm on each of the clamps that attach said beauty to your bench. With all the force of a sound tightening that would seem to be the weak point likely to fall prey to tragedy. Are the arms solid and robust enough? I would very much hate to see something go pear shaped with them.

They are in fact both warped where they have been fixed...probably for decades...on the same bench. There is also an element of photographic distortion as this is just my dinky S3 phone camera.

They do up pretty tight...and there is little movement once set. But this is definitely a weak point in the whole construction. I shall be super careful when using it though!

Jimi

 

[xy mosian]

Hi Jimi,
A great vice you have there. The clampy thing not browsing car boot sales at dawn, thinking about it though perhaps that as well.
The size is most impressive, next time you are near it with a moment, or two, could you measure the diameter of the upper thread please? I'd like to knock up a rough drawing and that would be a good reference.

xy

 

[jimi43]

Hi Jimi,
A great vice you have there. The clampy thing not browsing car boot sales at dawn, thinking about it though perhaps that as well.
The size is most impressive, next time you are near it with a moment, or two, could you measure the diameter of the upper thread please? I'd like to knock up a rough drawing and that would be a good reference.

xy

Hi XY....

There is quite a bit of information about the construction in THIS BENCHCRAFTED PDF

The difference is that this one has twin screws....well four if you count the clamps!

I have measured the main screw and it's 4cm diameter with approximately 4 TPI thread...but I don't know what the metric equivalent is for TPI...is close.

I have checked a bit further and the vise is beech.

It is similar to the Forge Royale one shown in their 1891 catalogue COMPRESSED PDF HERE and is listed as item number 177-178 plate 13.

I have had to do some remedial work on it...the boss locking peg was dust...eaten by worms past...so I whittled together another one...

I have no idea how the original peg would have looked...it was probably flush. But to enable me to be able to remove it...

....I added a little split tab....

...so now I can remove it...and even replace the old one if conservation dictates...but I can't see why it should.

Ok...XY...I think the most expedient way of dimensioning the vise is to take photos with rulers so here goes...

PHOTO 1

PHOTO 2

PHOTO 3

PHOTO 4

PHOTO 5

PHOTO 6

I think I have covered all aspects but if you need any more measurement photos....let me know.

Cheers

Jimi

 

[xy mosian]

Hi Jimi,

I really am gratefull. I didn't expect you to go to all that trouble. From your dimensions of the thread I would think 1 1/2" x 6 tpi should be close enough. As for the images, well you have saved me almost endless proportional measuring. Thank you again.
For the cork jaw linings, would sanding blocks come close to the required size. They can always be messily split.
The link will be useful I'm sure.

Perhaps there should be a 'Society of Old Tool Rescuers', president to be selected from members here abouts?

xy

 

[jimi43]

Hi Jimi,

I really am gratefull. I didn't expect you to go to all that trouble. From your dimensions of the thread I would think 1 1/2" x 6 tpi should be close enough. As for the images, well you have saved me almost endless proportional measuring. Thank you again.
For the cork jaw linings, would sanding blocks come close to the required size. They can always be messily split.
The link will be useful I'm sure.

Perhaps there should be a 'Society of Old Tool Rescuers', president to be selected from members here abouts?

xy

HA! I think we already have a President in the Prof (AndyT)....my vote is for him....what'dya say Prof? :wink:

I was thinking fishing floats...the large spherical ones used for lobster pots...but you might have just have saved me a trip to Cornwall!! :mrgreen:

Yes...of course...a cork sanding block! Well done mate!

I have been watching a number of old films on YT about these carving French masters....wonderful stuff...the artisan culture is still alive and well over there...we need to do more about it over here...but at least the interest is growing...

Carving is of interest to me because some tool parts require that skill...a skill which I am sadly lacking. But something I am definitely looking into seriously.

I know that Douglas has a number of thread cutting gizmos now so I think a trip over to discuss making a working reproduction of this fine vise is on the cards!

Cheers

Jimi

 

[Shrubby]

Nice find Jimi - the shape reminds me of the Tiranti Scopas chops - still sold but not nearly as nicely made as the early C20th versions
Matt

 

[AndyT]

Perhaps there should be a 'Society of Old Tool Rescuers', president to be selected from members here abouts?

xy

HA! I think we already have a President in the Prof (AndyT)....my vote is for him....what'dya say Prof? :wink:
Jimi

Thanks Jim, but I am not worthy...

And of course, there already is such a society, and it's been running for 31 years - the Tools and Trades History Society.
Its president is the indefatigable, inimitable Ken Hawley MBE, who was one of the founders, alongside other familiar names such as WL Goodman, RA Salaman, Philip Walker, Roy Arnold, Mark Rees...

Ken was the right man, in the right place, at the right time. He was working in Sheffield as toolmaking declined after WW2 and started to collect tools that their manufacturers no longer needed. His collection grew to include the tools that were used to make tools and archives of the companies. After 60 years of collecting, he has amassed over 100,000 items and 70,000 catalogues and paper records.
Much of the collection has been transferred from his house and sheds into storage provided by Sheffield University and more recently in an annex to the Kelham Island Museum in Sheffield.

You can read more about him and watch an excellent video interview here: http://hawleytoolcollection.com/

To join TATHS, click here: http://www.taths.org.uk/join.htm

I'm only tramping about in the foothills, enjoying the views...

 

[xy mosian]

Hi Jimi,
Thanks for the link to the Benchcraft vice. As has been said above, your vice is reminiscent of a vice I know as Carvers Chops, the Benchcraft design is exactly that. I do think the double screw, on your vice, would add something. A little like an up-market leg vice, it should be able to take care of non-parallel stock. How did that saw get in there?
I can see a vice of this sort, with a leg, for a face vice, instead of the clamps. That would give the added advantage of extra height, something I need when carving.

AndyT for president, of course. Now I had completely forgotten about TATHS, my apologies. I must look into it/them more closely.

I can sense a thread about a modern remake coming up, something to look forward to.

xy

 

[paul-c]

hi jimi
what a great thread.
i love seeing these old tools - especially when they are going to get a new life and live on.
keep up the good work
cheers paul
nice seeing more pics of alfie too