temperature regulated storage box?

[rafezetter]

Hi all

Some of you may be aware I'm hopefully buying a planer thicknesser, a 260 x 160 one on legs. What I'm going to have to do at least for an interim is make up it's own storage "shed" in my workshop area as it's open on 2 sides, albeit set back about 1.5 metres under a lean to roof cover.

It needs to be temperature regulated enough to stop any condensation and such to protect the valuable cast iron machinery inside.

I had considered just an OSB box with side hinges and wheels to move it about, with maybe a heating mat (and concrete slab as a thermal mass) on the bottom, and possibly thin insulation/ carpet/ tinfoil on the walls but is there anything else I need to consider such as trickle ventilation. Hopefully it will only need to last until the summer when I could do a refurb on my storage shed.

I'd appreciate anyone with experience of something like this, giving me some pointers or pitfalls to watch out for.

 

[MMUK]

You'll need ventilation for sure. Maybe fit some PC fans in the eaves* to promote air flow - they can be run from a small car battery. I had 12 running off a Bosch 096 battery permanently and the battery lasted about a month before it needed charging.

*I say eaves but as long as the air route is baffled to protect from driving weather and to protect the fans then anywhere will do.

 

[rafezetter]

How much airflow would I need? I would have thought airflow out means heat out although I'm aware of airflow needed to prevent dry rot in roof spaces, so maybe just enough to prevent stagnant air but not enough so that all the heat is just being wasted? I've got an old PC power supply I could hook up easy enough with old PC fans as you say.

anyone able to tell me what sort of temperature I'm aiming for? I was thinking as little as maybe 10 - 15 degrees?

Edit: wow a pet warming heat pad running at 18 watts putting out 38 deg 24/7 is just under £1 per month That should keep the rust off.

 

[MMUK]

That'll do. Just don't forget that heat with no ventilation will just create a sauna when the timber construction dries out......

 

[rafezetter]

You mean the heat will draw the moisture out of the wood and make an internal humid atmosphere?

 

[MMUK]

Yep

 

[Mr_P]

No experience with this but would have thought a power supply fan would be on the big side and as you said just suck all the warmth out.

I'd have thought one of the larger modern cpu fans or 2 of the older 486/ Pentium type would be better ?

 

[nanscombe]

Would it require some kind of fan for ventilation or would an adjustable louvred vent at the top and bottom be sufficient to allow airflow?

Or some sort of hole, or gap, in the floor with a slanted roof with an adjustable air gap at the top to let the warm air escape.

I'm sure people must have done similar things before the days of electric fans. :wink:

 

[rafezetter]

Would it require some kind of fan for ventilation or would an adjustable louvred vent at the top and bottom be sufficient to allow airflow?

Or some sort of hole, or gap, in the floor with a slanted roof with an adjustable air gap at the top to let the warm air escape.

I'm sure people must have done similar things before the days of electric fans. :wink:

I did have a thought about maybe having a few small inlet holes near the bottom and adding some near the top to create a chimney effect or possibly opposite sides only.

I think your manrose vent idea is good though nanscombe ty.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Moisture will only condense on a surface if it is cooler than the surrounding air, therefore if you can raise the temperature of the machine to fractionally higher than that of the surrounding air you will experience no condensation. Heater mats, incandescent light bulbs, greenhouse heaters are all well proven methods of achieving this. No forced ventilation is required though if there is the possibility of moisture being carried in, (on shoes etc.) then shielded louvre(s) should be fitted.

For a short term fix I'd build a 'box' to house the machine and install trickle heating on the machine. Lubricating wax on the bare metal for 'belt and braces' protection.

The message is to heat the machine

Regards Mick

 

[MMUK]

No experience with this but would have thought a power supply fan would be on the big side and as you said just suck all the warmth out.

I'd have thought one of the larger modern cpu fans or 2 of the older 486/ Pentium type would be better ?

When I said PC fans, I meant 68mm or 80mm case fans

 

[Glynne]

Or a cheap dehumidifier in your box with a hose to drain the water away?
You only have a small volume to keep dry so a very basic one will suffice and it will push out some heat as well. It may actually be as cheap as fans, heating mats etc.

 

[rafezetter]

Or a cheap dehumidifier in your box with a hose to drain the water away?
You only have a small volume to keep dry so a very basic one will suffice and it will push out some heat as well. It may actually be as cheap as fans, heating mats etc.

That might be a better idea as I can then keep the box sealed, I'm guessing i'll have to seal the wood inside and out though so it doesn't draw it out from the box inside which then pulls water from the atmosphere outside?

 

[nanscombe]

If there isn't going to be bucket loads of condensation how about a desiccant based dehumidifier like a Kilrock Gel-Safe Moisture Trap at £6.99?

Or if you were feeling flush, a UniBond Aero 360 Pure Moisture Absorber, initially more expensive at £19.99 but takes easily replaced desiccant tablets instead of granules.

I'd stand it on the floor of the box rather than on the item to be kept dry though just in case there's a drip or two.

ETA:

Mind you, instead of paying out almost £20 for the plastic UniBond absorber you could probably just use an appropriately sized funnel, for the desiccant tablet to sit in, attached to a length of plastic tubing to allow the water to drain away outside the box. :twisted:

 

[MMUK]

As a cheaper alternative, you could 'bag' the machine in polyethene sheeting and use some 1kg sacks of silica gel inside to retain any moisture. Just seal the bag shut after with gaffa tape.

 

[rafezetter]

If there isn't going to be bucket loads of condensation how about a desiccant based dehumidifier like a Kilrock Gel-Safe Moisture Trap at £6.99?

Or if you were feeling flush, a UniBond Aero 360 Pure Moisture Absorber, initially more expensive at £19.99 but takes easily replaced desiccant tablets instead of granules.

I'd stand it on the floor of the box rather than on the item to be kept dry though just in case there's a drip or two.

ETA:

Mind you, instead of paying out almost £20 for the plastic UniBond absorber you could probably just use an appropriately sized funnel, for the desiccant tablet to sit in, attached to a length of plastic tubing to allow the water to drain away outside the box. :twisted:

I saw a "rechargeable" dessicant absorber where it absorbed, but then you plugged it in and it dried out and you re-used: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rechargeable-Mini-Dehumidifier-Pack-Set/dp/B001P478OG/ref=pd_sim_kh_4

Edit - considering the cost of these things and the P/t - I could do both de-humidifier and heat pad for belt and braces, I could even then use the box as storage for other tools instead of my room.

 

[Giff]

It definitely needs ventilation and I think more than heat. I had a problem with tools rusting in an unheated storage shed and a 100mm bathroom extractor with a plug-in timer solved the problem. Also http://www.axminster.co.uk/liberon-lubricating-wax does stop rust on the beds and makes it much easier to plane / thickness as well. Warm it first so it is applied liquid. It lasts for ages. Geoff

 

[carlb40]

It definitely needs ventilation and I think more than heat. I had a problem with tools rusting in an unheated storage shed and a 100mm bathroom extractor with a plug-in timer solved the problem. Also http://www.axminster.co.uk/liberon-lubricating-wax does stop rust on the beds and makes it much easier to plane / thickness as well. Warm it first so it is applied liquid. It lasts for ages. Geoff

Yep that wax is fantastic stuff. I bought a 500ml tin back in 06 i think and still have what feels like at least half a tin left.

 

[rafezetter]

Hmm.. I appreciate all the answers, but I think maybe I'll just make the box and ventilate it for now, and keep an eye on it, then if any spots do appear I can always add a small pad heater

I bought 2 cans of T9 boeshield which is supposed to be pretty good stuff, and the whole mechanisms will get a coating, and I'll add some wax as well.

Here's 2 interesting excerpts I just found from sawmillcreek.org:

"I once asked a corrosion engineer (Nace doesn't make corrosion engineers anymore, the highest level I believe is CP specialist) a question related to preventing corrosion on cast iron surfaces. He told me to just cover the tablesaw in dry sawdust which will act as a dessicant to wick moisture away from the tablesaw surface. I've left my lathe covered in dry sawdust and noticed no corrosion yet so I'm still toying around with his dessicant idea."

"Plenty of good suggestions above but remember, moisture is the issue. Once you coat the surface in whatever you will be using, covering the surface to prevent air movement over it will prevent moisture in the air from condensing on the metal..."

So that settles it ( I think). Wood sealed (liberal application of oil based something or other), box sealed with no vents = no air movement, dessicant of some sort to remove moisture after it's been used and re-stored, plus boeshield.

Here's another link people might find worth a read:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/w...steries-blogs/rust-prevention-for-woodworkers

 

[Spindle]

Hi

I assume this is a storage scenario.

If you plan to use dessicant ideally you want a sealed environment, (nil ventilation).

If you make a box and only ventilate it what is the point? the atmosphere inside the box will be identical to that outside.

I strongly suggest you look into heating the machine - no amount of pure ventilation is going to prevent condensation occurring - look at your car on a cold morning, it's covered in condensation and could not be any better ventilated.

Regards Mick