Straightening a VERITAS MOLDED SPINE backsaw.

[J_SAMa]

TL;DR: If you somehow managed to bend a Veritas backsaw like I did, best strategy for you is to to contact Lee Valley for a (relatively cheap) replacement (minus the handle). According to a Veritas sales representative, the spines are molded directly onto the sawplate and is not by any means removable.
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Ugh... I dropped my Veritas dovetail saw and hit the concrete floor #-o ... Well, now about the last (closer to handle) 2 to 3 inches of the toothline is bent, bent enough that it jams a bit when sawing. The back is still fine (I think...) so it's just the saw plate that's buckled. Tapping on the back with a hammer wouldn't work because the plate is already bottomed out. Should I attempt to lever the back up off of the plate somehow? If so, how exactly?
Does anyone know what the "moulded spine" really is and how it is functionally different (if at all) from a regular folded brass/cast steel back? Judging from the fact that the plate buckled, it should be similar to a regular back in that it's not completely "locked" onto the plate.

Thanks in advance. I really treasure this saw and your advice may just save it...

P.S.: the "horn" on the handle chipped off too :x! I should really learn to handle my tools more carefully ...
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UPDATE
It's true what they say about Veritas/Lee Valley's Customer Service. I'm now offered a replacement and will see how well it works.

 

[woodiedonald]

Supposedly, your saw back is made from "stainless-steel powder for weight, glass fiber for stiffness, and a polymer resin binder." according to the lee valley website.

Is this any help?

cheers,
Donald

 

[Trafalgar]

Ugh... I dropped my Veritas dovetail saw and hit the concrete floor #-o ... Well, now about the last (closer to handle) 2 to 3 inches of the toothline is bent, bent enough that it jams a bit when sawing. The back is still fine (I think...) so it's just the saw plate that's buckled. Tapping on the back with a hammer wouldn't work because the plate is already bottomed out. Should I attempt to lever the back up off of the plate somehow? If so, how exactly?
Does anyone know what the "moulded spine" really is and how it is functionally different (if at all) from a regular folded brass/cast steel back? Judging from the fact that the plate buckled, it should be similar to a regular back in that it's not completely "locked" onto the plate.

Thanks in advance. I really treasure this saw and your advice may just save it...

P.S.: the "horn" on the handle chipped off too :x! I should really learn to handle my tools more carefully ...

Don't beat yourself up. I drop tools all the time. I have severe arthritis in my right thumb which affects my grip.

This would be a challenging but reasonably straightforward repair on a brass-backed saw. You should email Lee Valley for technical assistance. They may have a repair service or can advise if the composition of the spine makes the saw irreparable. Either way, please report back.

 

[Harbo]

Cannot help with the saw but interlocking rubber mats on your floor may prevent future tool damage?

I use some kids play area ones.

Rod

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Check with Lee Valley first. I imagine that they will offer to help. My first thought with a repair would be to use a little heat (hair dryer), warm the epoxy, and then bend it carefully.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Cannot help with the saw but interlocking rubber mats on your floor may prevent future tool damage?

I use some kids play area ones.

Rod

Rubber mats would be good, of course, and this is one reason why 'shop floors were invariably wooden.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The first thing to do is determine exactly where the bends are. Use a short wooden straightedge, say about 300 x 50 x 5mm (dimensions not critical), which needs to be 'eyeball' straight rather than 'engineering' straight. Hold the saw with the handle upwards and the blade vertically down, with a good light source behind it - a window will do fine. Offer the straightedge to the sawblade, at various points from the toothline to the spine, and note where the steel is bent. With luck, it's just a single 'fold' on the front corner, and also with luck, the spine is still straight. Mark where the bend is (the old books say use chalk, but I find it won't 'take' on the polished steel - a very soft pencil or wax crayon may be better).

If the spine is straight, and the bend is a simple one on the sawblade, you may be able to straighten it yourself. First, try placing the apex of the bend on a solid edge like a bench edge, and bending the steel over it with your fingers. You'll need a fair bit of pressure, and frequent checks on progress. If this doesn't work, try hammering.

For this, you'll need something to use as an anvil (a lump of steel with a nice clean surface solidly packed and held in an engineer's vice might do) and a heavy hammer - about 2lb (1kg) or heavier - with a slightly crowned and polished face. Place the blade on the anvil concave side down, and strike a couple of heavy, 'dead' blows on the apex of the bend. You want the hammer to hit the metal and stay there, not bounce up taking the energy of the blow away from the sawblabe. Start with medium to heavy blows, and check progress frequently. Increase the weight of blow if nothing positive happens to the sawblade. When you find the right weight of blow, the bend will flatten out quite suddenly. Be careful not to strike the sawblade with the edge of the hammer face; that will leave a crescent-shaped dent in the sawplate, and may even start a crack in it.

The chances are that you'll never get it perfect again, but it is possible to get a reasonable working sawblade again. I've managed it with a couple of backsaws, and a couple of panel saws. The key to whole process is finding out EXACTLY where the bend is, and working there only and nowhere else on the blade.

Good luck!

 

[Trafalgar]

I'm not so sure that anything less than dead straight will work *well* for a dovetail saw, which is the kind of saw the OP has unfortunately damaged.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Maybe, but the OP has nothing to lose. He currently has a saw that performs, but not as well as it should. Not quite a scrapper, but going in that direction. He could return it to Lee Valley, who would I'm quite sure do their level best to help out, but as he and LV are on different continents, the postage alone could end up almost as much as the saw is worth. So he may as well try sorting the problem before giving in and shelling out for a replacement saw.

P.S. If you've still got the bit that chipped off the horn, a bit of glueing may be all that's needed to sort it. If not, shape up a bit of suitable offcut.

 

[Trafalgar]

Maybe, but the OP has nothing to lose. He currently has a saw that performs, but not as well as it should. Not quite a scrapper, but going in that direction. He could return it to Lee Valley, who would I'm quite sure do their level best to help out, but as he and LV are on different continents, the postage alone could end up almost as much as the saw is worth. So he may as well try sorting the problem before giving in and shelling out for a replacement saw.

P.S. If you've still got the bit that chipped off the horn, a bit of glueing may be all that's needed to sort it. If not, shape up a bit of suitable offcut.

Quite right, it could be a wonderful learning opportunity.

 

[J_SAMa]

P.S. If you've still got the bit that chipped off the horn, a bit of glueing may be all that's needed to sort it. If not, shape up a bit of suitable offcut.

Already did it .

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

I would suspect that this issue would be the same for any saw with the plate epoxied into the spine (I believe LN saws have the spine milled, with the plate fixed by epoxy for one). I would think that heat applied to only a portion may make it worse, so the best course of action (short of contacting LV) may be to entirely remove the saw plate, clean out all old epoxy and re-set the plate. If when removed, the plate is still kinked, then a new saw plate is needed.

Incidentally, I have a LV molded spine carcass saw and two gent saws. I've found them excellent bargains, equal to many of the much higher boutique saws (I have a few of those also). BUT one of the best saw bargains is the Thomas Flinn Pax saw (14" tenon) I got from Tools for Working Wood. May not be as pretty as some, but for the wood I work, it is simply great, especially at the hundred dollar price range.

 

[J_SAMa]

I would suspect that this issue would be the same for any saw with the plate epoxied into the spine (I believe LN saws have the spine milled, with the plate fixed by epoxy for one). I would think that heat applied to only a portion may make it worse, so the best course of action (short of contacting LV) may be to entirely remove the saw plate, clean out all old epoxy and re-set the plate. If when removed, the plate is still kinked, then a new saw plate is needed.

Incidentally, I have a LV molded spine carcass saw and two gent saws. I've found them excellent bargains, equal to many of the much higher boutique saws (I have a few of those also). BUT one of the best saw bargains is the Thomas Flinn Pax saw (14" tenon) I got from Tools for Working Wood. May not be as pretty as some, but for the wood I work, it is simply great, especially at the hundred dollar price range.

Epoxied? That's why I couldn't fix it by tapping... Any risks of ruining the saw if I do try to melt the epoxy with a hairdryer and remove the plate?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Iirc epoxy hardens with heat. Your saw was not designed to be taken apart. Why should it be?

 

[Trafalgar]

Iirc epoxy hardens with heat. Your saw was not designed to be taken apart. Why should it be?

For a repair, perhaps?

And anyway, epoxy bonds break with heat. It might take a heat gun though...

Really no need for conjecture. I'm sure Lee Valley can clear up whether the saw can be fixed and how to go about it.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'm sure the last thing on the mind of the Veritas tool designer was the importance of making his backsaw repairable were someone to bend it, or he wouldn't have the thing epoxied in the first place.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Do we know that these saws are made by epoxying the spine onto the blade ? I had assumed that the spine was overmoulded onto the blade irremovably, maybe with holes in the top edge of the plate to make the join really secure. But I don't have any evidence - I just had a good look at mine and the leaflet that came with it, but no clues.

I would hesitiate to try and remove it.

 

[Trafalgar]

BUT one of the best saw bargains is the Thomas Flinn Pax saw (14" tenon) I got from Tools for Working Wood. May not be as pretty as some, but for the wood I work, it is simply great, especially at the hundred dollar price range.

Yes, this.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There is a Flinn up for auction somewhere at the moment.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Do we know that these saws are made by epoxying the spine onto the blade ? I had assumed that the spine was overmoulded onto the blade irremovably, maybe with holes in the top edge of the plate to make the join really secure. But I don't have any evidence - I just had a good look at mine and the leaflet that came with it, but no clues.

I would hesitiate to try and remove it.

I read somewhere that they were epoxied but I must agree your thinking is much more logical - either way the chance of removing the spine is remote - why should it be any other?