Staircase Spindles setting out question?

[Skeety]

Hi All,

I'm in the process of refurbishing my staircase as it was previously a horrible dark stain\varnish and made the room feel really small; not to mention that there were more runners in the finish than the London Marathon!!

It's been stripped back and sanded where possible but just ripped all the spindles out and the base rail as it will be easier to replace than sand back etc. and refinish as it's just going to be Osmo Poly-X'd.

I have replaced the base rail and am now at the stage of replacing the spindles. The spindles are 32mm square and there are 12 treads, I have allowed for 2 spindles per tread roughly to stay current with Building Regs but can add more if required (or less).

Could anyone advise how I calculate the following:

A, The width of the gaps between the spindles.

B, How to measure the spindle lengths? Thought about using a spirit level with a ruler to go into the channel.

Any advice welcome, no doubt there are things I haven't thought about!

Cheers,

Jon.

 

[blackrodd]

I believe a tennis ball must not pass between the spindles.
If you have bought you're string capping from Richard Burbidge, you will have the spacers supplied and already cut inside the 32mm groove. I'm not sure about other suppliers arrangements.
The same goes for the handrail which is also complete with ready cut spacers.and same groove at 32mm.
Failing that, Its best to just call you're local building control office and just ask for the distance as you are thinking of replacing stair spindles.
On a straight, plain and not turned newel, I cut a spindle in half and fix that on the newel, if it helps with spacing.
I set the angle and just cut a set amount from the spindle bottom, and then the finish length, on one angle set.
Cut two spindles and fix the handrail at that equal height, using one each end,if you wish.
I start from the bottom as its first seen, skew pin the spacer or spindle, with 32mm oval's, or similar, then the next spindle by skew nail against the ready fixed spacer ensuring the spacer will hide the punched in nail and make sure the hand rail is not rising up, in fact, I fit a spindle, temporary in the middle to help keep the handrail down. and check constantly for a snug fitting spindle each time, or you could ask someone to hold or sit above the middle one, could be you're tea maker!
The last spacer and spindle just need a bit of "snuggy" cutting and fitting.
I've seen loads of attempts at painting the spindles before fixing, should this thought appeal to you, paint all the spindles and lean them against the wall to dry and when finished painting, cut each end off which is where the paint will probably get stuck and marked.
HTH Regards Rodders
PS Measuring, just measure with a tape from the top down at the newel post, which is short angled side at the top and long angled side at the bottom.
As the handrail should equal the string angle just set a sliding bevel and a 2mm, or 3 mm gap on the first couple
won't matter anyway.R

 

[James-1986]

The gap should be no more than 100mm between spindles. Measure between the newels (shoulder to shoulder) at 90 degrees from plumb. You'll need around 20 spindles, so do 20 times the width of the spindle. Subtract that number from the distance between the newels, then divide that by the amount of gaps which will be one more than the number of spindles, that will give you the gap between the spindles. Get some MDF or ply with a straight edge, gauge a line that distance from the edge. Take a sliding bevel, place the stock against the newel and the blade along the base rail. Put the stock against the edge of the MDF and mark the line, the length of that line between those two points is the length of your infill.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If the spindles are shaped, that 100mm is anywhere between them not the top or bottom (afaik).

 

[Jacob]

Once you have worked out how many you must have, there's no need to calculate anything - you stride them out with dividers. Quicker than any other method and dead accurate. Worth googling if you don't know how - there's a bit of a knack to it but it's well worth knowing.
This is what dividers are for, and why they are called dividers.
Useful for dividing lengths - any repeating measurements such as DT spacings etc.
Essential for stairs and their details, otherwise you end up with some madly complicated serial calculations.

 

[plug]

Lots of helpful calculators on blocklayer.com

 

[bugbear]

Dividers not good for high multiples - too much cumulative error. Calculation more trustworthy.

BugBear

 

[chippy1970]

Or if the spindles are all exactly the same length all the way up the string. Just cut them all to size then stack them all up one end against the newel. Now measure from the last spindle up to the top newel along the baserail. Divide this by one more than the amount of spindles and this will give you the length of spacers needed. Set up a stop on your mitre saw and cut all but the last one. The last spacer should be cut to the exact size of the gap once all spindles are fitted. Also when you cut the spacers cut one end at 45 degrees (as long as the pitch of the stairs isn't more than 45 degrees and then cut the other end square

 

[Jacob]

Dividers not good for high multiples - too much cumulative error. Calculation more trustworthy.

BugBear

Exactly wrong.
The whole point of correct use of dividers is to eliminate cumulative errors (this is stage two after the first trial divide) as well as being much quicker/easier to use then calculations.
It's one of those lost arts. I didn't know about it myself until a few years ago - when I started asking myself why they were called "dividers".*
You have some googling to do!

*PS clue - their primary function is "dividing" and no numbers are involved except the number of divisions

 

[SPinonit]

I am also replacing the spindles in my staircase and I found this website's two pages which might help?

How to calculate how many spindles

How to accurately calculate even baluster [spindle] gaps

 

[blackrodd]

I am also replacing the spindles in my staircase and I found this website's two pages which might help?

How to calculate how many spindles

How to accurately calculate even baluster [spindle] gaps

Well found SPinonit, I had a swift butcher's and prefered the second option as I like to keep thing as simple as is possible.
You blokes sure do manage to find the howto's on the net.
Regards Rodders

 

[nanscombe]

As Tommy Walsh said on one of his programmes, don't forget to check that your spindles are still upright every so often and adjust the spacer if necessary.

 

[blackrodd]

As Tommy Walsh said on one of his programmes, don't forget to check that your spindles are still upright every so often and adjust the spacer if necessary.

I like Tommy, He's a good All rounder, really quick on the masonry! Rodders

 

[James-1986]

Dividers are most useful for dowel ended spindles when you want to drill the centres, I find for square spindles it is quicker to calculate it. He has also already installed the base rail which makes it a bit awkward at the bottom for dividers.

 

[Jacob]

Dividers fast, accurate and easy for square spindles too. It really is. There's a neat little trick. I'll write it up at some point, if people haven't googled it.

 

[deema]

Hi Jacob,
Appreciate the write up if you could, I tried looking for dividers and other than by a process of elimination don't know the trick you refer to. It would be really appreciated

 

[Jacob]

Hi Jacob,
Appreciate the write up if you could, I tried looking for dividers and other than by a process of elimination don't know the trick you refer to. It would be really appreciated

Basically you stride out your dividers between marks, dividers set as near as you can eyeball the right space. Unless you are spot on first time this results in an error at the end. You adjust the dividers plus or minus the error divided by the number of steps, as near as you can judge by eye. Then stride it out again for a smaller error, and repeat if necessary.
So for example if you have 3 steps and you are 6mm under at the end, you add 2mm to the dividers setting and repeat. 12mm over and you deduct 4mm etc.

If you are marking for spindles or balusters you do as above but you start at one end from the mark (or the newel post 1) but finish at the other end one balusters width beyond the other mark or newel post 2 (as if there is a ghostly baluster there!) This gives you the marks for one side of each baluster. You do the other mark by striding back again from newel post2 with the same setting of the dividers, (which will finish one balusters width beyond newel post 1).

You do a similar thing with DTs - stride one way for the first of each pair of marks, and back again for the second.

 

[busy builder]

Space between spindles must not exceed 100mm, this is to stop little kiddiwinks getting their heads through and strangling themselves.

 

[blackrodd]

Space between spindles must not exceed 100mm, this is to stop little kiddiwinks getting their heads through and strangling themselves.

Perhaps this is why the spacers supplied by Richard Burbidge keep the spindles 100mm apart. then cut and fiddle the last one in at the top of the flight. Simples!
Rodders

 

[merlin]

Jacob - Thanks for explaining the whole divider thing as up until now I have only used them for scribing.

I set out 2 handrails today that had no groove so therefore had to be mortised out to accept the spindles - what a doddle, as you said quick and accurate.

My ancient old Peugeot dividers have now been moved up to being part of my "glovebox tool set" - quite an honour !

Cheers, Merlin