Spraying again .

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JFC

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Ok ive tried four spray guns ranging from a homebase plug in the socket job that dribbled like my grandad to a devilbiss pressure fed and a clarke gravity fed and i still cant spray .
Whats the trick please ? My compressor has no trouble keeping up with the air flow so is it the type of paint im using ( normal household primer /undercoat and gloss thinned with white spirit .
Has anyone just picked up a spray gun and done a good job first time ?
 
JFC":91osd0yk said:
Has anyone just picked up a spray gun and done a good job first time ?
Err.... No! It took me a few attempts to get it right when I started. There isn't really a "trick" as such - it's a bit like plastering, a case of practice makes perfect. Can I hazard a guess at your problems: runs and sags, inconsistent spray pattern, gun clogging? C'mon, Jason, post us a few problems and let's have a look see, there's enough of us out here who've mastered the "back art" :wink:

BTW I second tjhe recommendation for Andt Charron's book - brilliant text.

Scrit
 
Ah well there you go , i cant plaster either :oops:
The main problem is im not getting a flat finish . Ive only tried MDF and id like to master spraying MDF as this will be what i want to spray mainly .
I can understand if im getting inconsistant spray or splattering but its the stippled finish and orange peel look i cant get my head around .
 
Jason,

Hazarding a bit of a guess here as your info is still a bit light - there are a few likely possibilities

1. You have not got the balance between air volume and liquid right and atomisation is not correct
2. You have water in the line
3. Your are not laying a proper wet coat - many beginning sprayers try for too dry and light a coat that will not coalesce and feels like sandpaper as it dries too fast
4. You are varying the gun to target distance or swivelling your wrist
 
spraying is not a black art, but covering mdf is of course.

one of the important things to do is to stop the paint soaking into
the mdf, so many of us initially use a "dry coat" to get a coverage that
will reduce the soak, then build up.

having practiced in the car paint shop, and sprayed model cars which were
only about 4-6 inches long the major problems i found were. not thinned enough paint, not thinned with the right medium, distance from spray gun to workpiece, not moving the gun quickly enough, and too high air volume.

an additional problem is whether the panels are vertical, horizontal or
at an angle.

i was taught to start outside the to be sprayed piece, move slowly across it, and outside the other side, then move the gun down about half the thickness of the first layer, and go back the other way. frankly the first coat is always going to be a problem, but that is why we rub down and use more top coats.

many people think the layer will be too thick, but you are only talking microns.

orange peel is generally caused by paint which drys too soon, generally before actually touching the surface.

runs are generally due to either the gun being too close, so the paint does not dry quickly enough, or the paint being too thin so the same thing happens.

on a flat sheet, it is pretty easy to organise a good finish with about
4 layers in total, as long as you rub down between each coat. the first coat is just to evenly coat the wood/mdf, and get a less porous surface
for the balance of the coatings. but remember you can also cover a lot
of sins when you use a decent finishing lacquer.

personally i have found the rustins two part lacquer which is heat
resistant worked really well being brushed on to a re-finished gillows
veneered oak table, and you can chose deep gloss back to very flat.

finally, the ambient temperature of the spraying area, plus the
"paint" being at a decent temperature also. remember that it is suggested
that when you use a spray can, to get the best finish, you should put
it into a bowl of hot water, and then shake vigourously to get the
proper paint mixture.

you do have to mix the paint and the spraying medium, (thinners/water/etc) properly, and for this an electric paddle is valuable.

unfortunately the final thing is you need to practice.
then practice again.

paul :wink:
oh yes dont forget a GOOD mask :lol:
 
Thanks JFC for starting this one as it has answered some question I had about the same thing.
It now is much clearer for my at lested :)
 
Hmmm i think from reading the replies i am not putting enough paint on . I was spraying a fine mist and putting on many coats , a lot more than four . As for practice ive got my whole kitchen to do but ive just got to get round to making it first :roll:
All of the sprayers i have spoken too want the backs off the units , this is a real pain as the backs add rigidity to the work . Is this a must for spraying ?
 
Jason,

I hate spraying anything with a back. The main problem is "bounceback" where spray intended for the back literally bounces off onto the (in)sides of the cabinet and vice versa. I don't spray things with a back on any more after trying and failing to get good results.

A back also prevents you from manipulating the gun position properly/easily.
 
Jason

The commercial guys always want the backs off because it makes life easier for them, helps them keep up their throughput (and makes their bonuses). I have to say it makes it much quicker and easier to spray. I've taken to designing stuff (that is going out to a sprayer) with small braces and a slide-out back. That way the carcass will travel to the sprayer with the back in to help rigidity, they'll slide it out, spray the unit and the back separately, then re-insert the back for the journey back to me. To work onto corners you can use a small touch-up gun or a small gravity feed gun, but the back-out approach is a lot less hassle if you can manage it.

Scrit
 
scrit is right, but like all things you have to consider the removal of the back at the design stage, and build in a different anti racking system
from the get go.

maybe the idea is to do what they do with kitchen units and use corner blocks too.

paul :wink:
 
waterhead37":j59c9kff said:
Jason,

I hate spraying anything with a back. The main problem is "bounceback" where spray intended for the back literally bounces off onto the (in)sides of the cabinet and vice versa. I don't spray things with a back on any more after trying and failing to get good results.

A back also prevents you from manipulating the gun position properly/easily.

I learned this the hard way. I would now spray all parts before glue up.
 
Looks like i may have sussed it :D I managed to get a spare hour today and tried out the MDF primer . I got some great coverage and ok a few drips on the end grain but thats me putting far to much on .
I cant remove the backs of the units as i made them ages ago and glued them in with biscuits but i can see why the backs are better off .
By the time the third unit was sprayed the first was touch dry (about 20 minuets ) Is this long enough for a rub down and another coat ? Or no rub down just another coat ? I left it until tomorrow just incase i messed it up .
 
JFC":2pldumdy said:
By the time the third unit was sprayed the first was touch dry (about 20 minuets ) Is this long enough for a rub down and another coat ? Or no rub down just another coat ? I left it until tomorrow just incase i messed it up .
By primer I assume you mean a sealer, not an undercoat. What does the manufacturer's sheet say? If it says 4 to 6 hours (probably 12 to 24 hours if water based), then that's how long you need to leave it as otherwise it will be soft and the grain will raise and then "set-back" a little as the carrier in the primer evaporates. When you get to the colour/finish coats the process changes a little as your finish will have a flash-off time, a recoat window (open time) and a cure time. For undercoat/finish coats you'd be best advised to let the material flash off and try to restrict yourself to absolutely essential denibbing only with a Scotch grey cloth - no abrasives as the surface is still soft after flashing-off. Always try to get a second coat on within your recoat window and do any major abrasive work after the two coats have dried properly

Good luck!

Scrit
 
The tin says MDF primer is ok to spray and a second coat acts as an undercoat for any top coat solvent also . I am spraying MDF so the grain raising would be the MDF swelling on the exposed ends (end grain)because i've just used a water based primer i spose ?
Top coats and spray windows :-$ Dont tell me things like that i thought i was doing well :lol:
 
JFC":vjj31ap5 said:
I am spraying MDF so the grain raising would be the MDF swelling on the exposed ends (end grain)because i've just used a water based primer i spose ?
Yes, spot on. First coat needs to be left overnight to dry. That's why some trade sprayers uses a solvent-based sealant, such as white shellac - it dries really fast. Subsequent coats should dry quicker in a warm room. Edges might need 3 or more coats, though, for a top quality finish (they always seem to need at least one more coat than the faces :cry: ). I'm in favour of spraying a couple of coats of high-solids undercoat before applying colour (second one wet coating the first, then rubbed-out to 400 grit unless it's ultra high gloss you're after). That way if you sand through you don't need to reseal..... :roll:

Scrit
 
Wet coating the first ? Does that mean spraying a second coat 20 mins after the first ?
 
JFC":3l1g35xn said:
Wet coating the first ? Does that mean spraying a second coat 20 mins after the first ?
By that I mean spraying a second coat after the first has had time to flash-off, i.e. lose it's initial solvent carrier load. The actual time will be stated in the manufacturer's data sheets which you must obtain for everything you spray (and retain if you're trade). The 20 minutes isn't rigid, it depends in the material, and there are even finishes which permit wet-on-wet application, i.e. the second coat can be applied before the first one has dried - the manufacturer's data sheets will tell you what you need to know.

Scrit
 
I called the manufacturer and they said i can see the data sheets online . I looked and it doesn't give much more info than whats on the tin :roll:
Gonna have a go at spraying acrylic gloss to see how that works out . :lol:
 
JFC":2io99011 said:
Gonna have a go at spraying acrylic gloss to see how that works out . :lol:
=D> Make sure that you've got a couple of layers of sealant beneath it flatted out to 320 grit or better.

Scrit
 
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