Specific table saw.

[greenwellies555]

I know from trawling through this site many of you are sick of being asked what table saw should I buy, and will say read on or look at all the postings for your answer, but most members posting don't seem to be able to say what they want the saw for, how much they want to spend or ask what is the difference between etc, etc. Mine is more specific although stand to be corrected in which case point me elsewhere. Anyway I wouldn't be here if I didn't respect your advice so.....
Have got a small workplace over the top of my garage (part of top half of old coach house, with suspended floor) Anything I buy has to be humped up stairs so dont want anything that weighs tons but on the other hand once in situ I won't be moving it. Won't be cutting down 8x4 sheets of timber, got clapped out freebee Delta to do that. What I make are bee hives, small animal houses, bat boxes etc. Fairly light stuff really. What I want (after my negative experience with the lightweight delta with a crappy fence) is : Sturdy, flat table with accurate, easy set up fence, sliding table, quiet motor, does not have to be megga portable because once upstairs will be staying there, price up to £800 (don't mind new or second hand) Have got van so can collect. The main thing I want here is accuracy after trying to make do with what I have had this has seriously compromised the quality of what I have been making. Thanks in advance for any help.
Gerry

 

[rspsteve]

I have just bought a Kity 619 from a forum member not used it yet but it look well made and through my research its accurate ...and will cost lots less than £800 ...last one I watched on eBay went for £470 ...removable outfeed table and sliding table etc.

Steve

 

[MickCheese]

I have the smaller 8" Kity (the 419 I think), it has an aluminum table, a couple of fairly good fences a long and a short and a sliding table on the left.

For my amateur use it has been very good and in pieces light enough to lug around by one person.

The Axminster TS200 is a copy but I have no experience of this.

Mick

 

[greenwellies555]

Thanks guys, havent looked at a kity, the ts200 I thought would be ideal on paper for my needs, but all I read on here seems to be rubbish fence or problem with table not being level or the mitre kit being wrong size for groove. Maybe these complaints are few and far between and loads are sold with no problem or people don't realise or like me never really complain, because unless you 'talk the talk' (which is why I am on here cos I don't) then the suppliers go into 'secret society of woodworking machine salesman' and fob you off with it being your fault or you don't know what you are talking about. (Sorry about the rant but building supplies trade counters are similar)
Will have as I said a look at the kity meanwhile any more suggestions welcome and also any thoughts on the TS200 not being a minefield for the non complainer and being suitable for the light but accurate work I described earlier.

 

[MickCheese]

Just had a look on eBay. There is a Kity saw in Dorset and they come up quite frequently. Most have only been used in home workshops so have a relatively easy life.

Worth a look I think.

Mick

 

[rspsteve]

Just a quick point the 619 has a cast table.

 

[marcros]

I would look at a radial arm saw as part of your kit. As for the table saw, I rate the kity kit, some of the axi stuff seems good too. A sliding carriage will be made redundant by the RAS. A sliding table looks a really useful thing but is normally only on top end stuff- fielder and one or two others, maybe a record model. The require a lot of room.

 

[david123]

I have the Axi ts200 and although, not used it fot that long I love it. It is a quiet and a Solid machine and yes apart from thr rubbish fence it has done every thing that I have asked of it. Most most machines need a bit of fettling when you first get them to true them up. I had very little to do to mine.
I can recommend it.

 

[greenwellies555]

Thanks for all replies so far. Had a look at kity 419 on ebay, messaged him and asked about 'sliding table' turned out to be a typo, but looks ok but perhaps if a 619 turns up as it has a cast table that would be a little better. Hadn't thought about radial arm saw, have got a Makita chop saw which is not quite the same but it is so noisy and have never really got on with that., just fancied the sliding carriage but maybe I don't really need it ? Regarding the Axi ts200 is there anyway of improving the fence or is that it ? Maybe somebody has 'done a job' on one and sorted it? looked at Poolwood Machinery on a search for kity and came up with Scheppach, suppose it is the same with different badge? looks like ts200 think I need more info on all of this so if youv'e got the time and patience hit me with it.

Thanks all

Gerry

 

[marcros]

the reason that I suggest a RAS is because I imagine you using a lot of identically long pieces. It is quieter than your mitre saw because it is induction motored. You can set a stop block, and cut, move, cut, move, cut, move etc. You kinda can on a sliding carriage, but not nearly as efficiently- they do have their uses, but IMHO are better for squaring the end of a cut than for trying to cross cut a 6' length in half. You also have the option of fitting a dado set, which at least for a small production line of beehives, could be very useful.

Kity went bust. Scheppach bought them, I believe and have now rebadged the kity models. I dont know if they are 100% the same.

You can improve most table saw fence systems, as long as you can fix an alternative rail. The cheapest saws, with a pressed top may be beyond the limit- you often lack somewhere to fix any improvements to. have a look at beismeyer type fences online for ideas. they are also known as t square fences.

 

[graduate_owner]

I have a Scheppach TS2500 which I bought second hand for £650. It has a side table which hinges down when not needed and a sliding table about 4 ft long. It seems to work fine, solid and accurate, and I'm very happy with it.

K

 

[greenwellies555]

Well Marcros, that's put the cat among the pigeons and probably blown the budget!, not being familiar with a RAS just had a quick look at uses, as you mentioned dados and yes many repetitive cuts in what I try to do. So if that is something else I could do with as well as a table saw (still want one of those) suggestion as to what RAS I should be looking at? Meanwhile will have a look at the scheppach ts2500 as mentioned by K.
Thanks all, keep it coming.
G

 

[marcros]

perhaps not as bad as you think. I would look for a dewalt model- as far as I know they are much of a muchness, and either 300mm or 600mm width cut. I would expect that it will set you back 150-200 or so if you are patient. A check on the ebay completed items will give you an idea. The powershop ones seem a good price now- mine is a powershop 125 (300mm model). The dado blade might be a bit harder to source, but there are a few options to do so- they are not unobtainable.

looking at those same listings for a used ts2500- you might sneak both into your budget!

 

[greenwellies555]

Food for thought, will follow up all suggestions, I'm not in a desperate hurry so will keep an eye on what comes up....normally in the Scottish Isles whilst I'm in Cornwall and collection only!!
Anymore comments very welcome and thank you all so far.

 

[Rhossydd]

any thoughts on the TS200 not being a minefield for the non complainer and being suitable for the light but accurate work I described earlier.

I recently bought my first table saw, a second hand TS200, and am very happy with it.
After some moderate fettling it cuts sweetly and accurately.
Mine is probably about three or four years old, so might not represent what the current QA standards are, but having played with a couple of different ones in Axminster showrooms over the last year I think they're as well built as any of the cheaper table saws.

The two annoying design decisions (flaws?) I've found are;
1. The non-standard mitre slot dimensions. This means you can't upgrade the standard mitre guide, which is nothing to write home about, but it can be fettled to usefulness.
2. The table insert around the blade can't be replaced by a zero tolerance one ( the sort you see on many table saw videos). Whilst it's easy enough to shim up the plate to be nicely flush with the table surface, it still leaves gaps at the side of the blade that very small bits of wood can fall into. They can then be kicked back out or foul the blade below the table. Not a major problem, just an occasional annoyance.

I can lift the basic saw without too much effort, so getting it into your workshop should be OK. It runs quietly without any vibration and on the standard base seems pretty solid.
The sliding table's fence by default has a small amount of play in it, but 15mins with a drill and tap allows you to add an extra Bristol locking lever that can lock everything firmly into place. The standard table fence seems fine to me.

These come up on eBay quite often and sometimes sell for bargain prices. An estate car would make pick up easy, but it could probably fit into most hatchbacks. You might need to remove a sliding table, extension table or stand, but that's all pretty quick and easy.

Hope this helps.

Paul

 

[marcros]

any thoughts on the TS200 not being a minefield for the non complainer and being suitable for the light but accurate work I described earlier.

The two annoying design decisions (flaws?) I've found are;
1. The non-standard mitre slot dimensions. This means you can't upgrade the standard mitre guide, which is nothing to write home about, but it can be fettled to usefulness.
2. The table insert around the blade can't be replaced by a zero tolerance one ( the sort you see on many table saw videos). Whilst it's easy enough to shim up the plate to be nicely flush with the table surface, it still leaves gaps at the side of the blade that very small bits of wood can fall into. They can then be kicked back out or foul the blade below the table. Not a major problem, just an occasional annoyance.

Ah, but...

1. The slots might be able to be machined out- I seem to recall reading that it can be done but is a bit risky. What you can do is to buy an aftermarket gauge and replace the runner strip in it with a piece of aluminium or hardwood that fits your slot. There is a size of aluminium that needs minimal filing I think- I cant remember but I think it is an imperial size- probably 5/8 x 1/4 or thereabouts.

2. I think that the trick here is to araldite a washer onto the underside of the table to add support where it is needed but lacking. There is another thread here, which may assist you dressing-up-my-ts-200-zero-clearance-insert-t58023.html?hilit=kity%20zero%20insert

 

[Rhossydd]

Ah, but...
1. The slots might be able to be machined out- I seem to recall reading that it can be done but is a bit risky.

Possibly; This sort of modification is fine if you have the facilities to do it yourself or know someone who can do it for you for free, but paying for it to be done is likely to be expensive. Once you contemplate spending lots on modifications you're probably better off looking at a better machine anyway.

It's not a deal killer anyway, 2 minutes with a punch and hammer sorts out any slop with the mitre bar.

2. I think that the trick here is to araldite a washer onto the underside of the table to add support where it is needed but lacking. There is another thread here, which may assist you dressing-up-my-ts-200-zero-clearance-insert-t58023.html?hilit=kity%20zero%20insert

Thanks for pointing out that thread, I hadn't found it before.
Interesting, but the proximity of the blade to the table making one side of the ZCI only 6mm wide for maybe 250mm with only 10mm of support at the front makes me a little dubious about it's durability.

 

[graduate_owner]

After reading Rhossydd's comments, a follow-up on my Scheppach TS2500 -

I haven't ever used the mitre slot, so don't know if it's standard or not. I have a mitre guide that slides in it but I usually use the sliding table instead. The table is aluminium, not cast iron as in the later models, but that's no problem to me. The saw is pretty heavy (2 man job, even without being cast iron) and would need the extras taking off - it might still only just fit into an estate car. Regarding the blade 'slot' - this is part of a table section and there is no means of changing it to a zero tolerance (or widening it to accept a dado head either), at least not without actually cutting a section out.

The only strange thing I have noticed is the dust hood / guard / riving knife which only just allows timber to fit underneath. I have to raise the blade (and hence the guard combination) more than I need - not a problem at all, but I thought it was a bit odd. The guard combination can be moved up or down by unscrewing a bolt under the table, but the current position seems to be the best compromise.

The sliding table track can be moved forwards or backwards to accommodate large pieces of board, just by unscrewing 4 locking bolts (by hand - big plastic heads) but you still won't be able to use the sliding table on a full sized 8x4 sheet (not easily anyway). If you need the full table you can remove the sliding table from it's guide in about 10 seconds - just pull a knob and it slides right off. Refitting is easy too.

The sliding table fence has a pull-out section which makes it about 3 feet long, and it maintains the ruler setting which is handy, but I usually check with a tape measure anyway. Similarly the right hand extension folds down, but when it's in position it maintains the ruler setting, but again I check with a tape measure.

So that's about it. The machine does actually take up a surprising amount of room when fitted witha sliding table and with the right hand extension in place, but as far as I'm concerned this is a good thing because you get a larger table area. A small footprint saw will inevitably have a smaller table surface area. A large table area is really useful - and I can use it as a level area for assembling things if I wind the blade right down and remove the guard combination - useful when every other surface is as cluttered as mine usually are (despite regular tidy ups !!)

One last comment - I'm no professional, not even an accomplished amateur, so my comments should be read in context. I would suggest you ask around and see if you can try out a saw before committing scarce funds. Pity you're in Cornwall - you would be welcome to try mine but I'm in West Wales.

K

 

[greenwellies555]

Lots to think about and so much help for which I thank you all, so glad I dared to ask the question. Its really a case of me keep reading, watch whats out there regarding used machines, and make a decision based on the advice given. Still open to more comments and info if anybody feels they can input further! Oh and thanks 'K' for the offer, if I was a bit nearer I would come and have a look and try it out.
G.

 

[Rhossydd]

Another thought might be "Do you actually need a table saw at all?"
For the sort of work you mention in your first post a mitre saw might suit you as well, but be much lighter to get into the workshop. http://www.axminster.co.uk/bosch-gcm-10 ... -mitre-saw