Speaker Designer seeks cabinet maker

[Jake]

Having previously repaired High end Hifi for a living( for more than 20 yrs) and heard the most expensive to the cheapest, I'm a little surprised by the comments. Everyone has different taste in music and likes a different type of sound, there is no nirvana, only what floats your own boat.

I don't think anyone said any different, did they?

There are objective qualities in play, but there are a lot of trade offs to be made between them, and their relative importance is ultimately a completely subjective matter. I didn't see anyone suggesting otherwise - certainly I was careful to say "for me".

 

[woodbloke]

extremely easy to get swept up in high end equipment (LN planes anyone? Festool etc etc)

Just to digress a moment. The comparison between LN stuff and top-endy Hi-Fi gear is, in my view, wrong. LN gear and similar is mid-range stuff in the woodworking world. The really good stuff comes from Karl Holtey and Konrad Sauer etc. Similarly, the hugely expensive hand forged Damascus steel Jap chisels are top end, LN chisels are good middle-of-the road everyday kit. Whether this top end woodwork equipment performs any better is another question entirely :wink: ..... - Rob

 

[Tusses]

So many responses
so I'd challenge Tusses statement of what "True Fidelity" means.

ok

my view !

Hi-Fi is a measurable standard. It is as close a reproduction of the recorded source that is possible. measurable and testable.

Excellent sound - is a different thing all together and is very objective to the tastes of the listener.

After learning all I could about hi'fi and loudspeaker design and theory, I would never use the two terms interchangeably.

Excellent sound is not necessarily Hi-Fi by definition !

in fact some people get used to or prefer a coloured tonal sound that is far from hi-fi.

to say that an aging person cant hear upto 20KHz etc doesn't cut it. In a natural sound those high frequences will interact with the lower frequences producing other tones and harmonics that are audible at lower frequences and can be percieved by the listener. If those hi frequences are missing from the play back then they percieved sound the listener gets will be different to the real thing !

That is my take on 'Hi-Fi'

 

[salvage]

smallangryboy: I took a look at your website and your designs certainly have visual appeal and I'm assuming have the ability to reproduce sound to a quality acceptable to all but the most obsessive audiophiles (which in my experience are never truly satisfied ).


I'm not in a position to offer you my services regarding the construction but
would like to wish you the best of luck with your business

Salvage

 

[cutting42]

Just to digress a moment. The comparison between LN stuff and top-endy Hi-Fi gear is, in my view, wrong. LN gear and similar is mid-range stuff in the woodworking world. The really good stuff comes from Karl Holtey and Konrad Sauer etc. Similarly, the hugely expensive hand forged Damascus steel Jap chisels are top end, LN chisels are good middle-of-the road everyday kit. Whether this top end woodwork equipment performs any better is another question entirely :wink: ..... - Rob

Hi Rob

That is a fantastic example of different perceptions lead to different opinions. As to me and I dare say many others LN DO represent a high end, especially when I had not heard of Konrad Sauer and Damascus steel. As I mentioned, my HiFi is often called high end by non HiFi enthusiasts but it is not by my standards or by the rich people who make the Horns of their speakers a constructional part of their house.

But I do agree with your last comment, the striving for ever more esoteric equipment (in both disiplines) makes an ever decreasing return on the investment and can largely be in the eye/ear of the beholder/maker.

 

[Tusses]

of coarse the big spanner in the works for 'Hi-Fi' is that a lot of the recorded sound sources or even the electronic instruments these days, are not up to 'hi-fi' standard as such, this makes the whole argument academic.

I have played live music with acoustical instruments in well designed concert halls and areana's around the world - I do find it nice to be able to hear that kind or quality of sound from a recorded medium.

alot of "music" LOL these days is recorded/produced on cheapish sound cards and sound mudules - not a hint of a real instrument in sight !

 

[woodbloke]

Just to digress a moment. The comparison between LN stuff and top-endy Hi-Fi gear is, in my view, wrong. LN gear and similar is mid-range stuff in the woodworking world. The really good stuff comes from Karl Holtey and Konrad Sauer etc. Similarly, the hugely expensive hand forged Damascus steel Jap chisels are top end, LN chisels are good middle-of-the road everyday kit. Whether this top end woodwork equipment performs any better is another question entirely :wink: ..... - Rob

Hi Rob

That is a fantastic example of different perceptions lead to different opinions. As to me and I dare say many others LN DO represent a high end, especially when I had not heard of Konrad Sauer and Damascus steel. As I mentioned, my HiFi is often called high end by non HiFi enthusiasts but it is not by my standards or by the rich people who make the Horns of their speakers a constructional part of their house.

But I do agree with your last comment, the striving for ever more esoteric equipment (in both disiplines) makes an ever decreasing return on the investment and can largely be in the eye/ear of the beholder/maker.

If you have a look at these chisels from CHT you'll be able to see what I mean. If you compare like for like then they are over twice the price of the equivalent LN chisel...but do you get twice the performance :-k ...as you say, there's a 'law' in here somewhere about 'diminishing returns' End of the day, if the tools (or hi-fi system) perform as you want them to do, then there comes a point when you have to be satisfied, or else the guys in white coats will be paying a visit :lol:
What is different is that woodwork produces tangible results, something that you can feel and touch and better quality tools help towards the end result. Hi-fi is entirely subjective (at the normal domestic level) and what sounds great to one individual may be rubbish to another.
It's a bit like the Python argument sketch...
'My hi-fi sounds fantastic'...
'No it doesn't'
'Yes it does'
'Have you come here for an argument?'....etc etc
You get the drift. I used to have an LP12 and all the gear but got fed up with continually trying to obtain a 'better' :wink: sound so I flogged it years ago - Rob

 

[smallangryboy]

The irony is that most live concerts and gigs are amplified through speaker systems so the majority of the audience can hear it in larger venues

I don't see many concerts where you split a live band or orchestra in two and fit them into two 3ft cubed boxes, either side of the stage

 

[Tusses]

The irony is that most live concerts and gigs are amplified through speaker systems so the majority of the audience can hear it in larger venues

I don't see many concerts where you split a live band or orchestra in two and fit them into two 3ft cubed boxes, either side of the stage

Our orchestra was totally acoustic - unamplified, as many are. any good concert hall doesnt need amplification for a full orchestra.

rock pop etc are a different thing, as I said.

 

[wizer]

back to topic, did you find a solution to the problem?

 

[Tusses]

I don't see many concerts where you split a live band or orchestra in two and fit them into two 3ft cubed boxes, either side of the stage

and there is your problem reproducing 'Hi-Fi' sound

 

[smallangryboy]

...with ANY design

 

[Tusses]

hey smallangryboy - you seem to have taken it that I am knocking your design ??? I am not.

the thread progressed as to what is, or is considered hi-fi. With some explanation asked for from another member.

I think your speakers look ace, and I would love to hear them.

Even tho I know what 'hi-hf' is, I know I could never make any with my room and financial constraints. But I could make some excellent sounding stuff.

again - sorry if you got the wrong end of the stick, but I just thought, as a speaker designer, you would enjoy talking about speaker design ?

cheers
Rich

 

[RogerS]

........
Don't get me started on Hi Fi and speaker cables!

What...you mean how much better those monster cables are at £50 a metre :wink:

And we musn't forget that soldering in capacitors the wrong way round can seriously detract from the high fidelity bit - so I read somewhere.

Nice speakers, by the way. I must not let SWMBO see them as she'll want me to get rid oif my elderly Spendor BC1's - arguably some of the finest speakers ever made.... :wink:

 

[smallangryboy]

RogerS
lol Just let me know when you want to place your order.

Tusses
No offence taken at all and it's tricky to get someones tone from a written post. I do enjoy talking about hifi and I'm really chuffed so many people took the time to read and post!

I'm happy to showcase my designs and also fully aware they're not to everyone's taste.

I did drag a pair of my Highballs [the round malteser looking ones] to the Cornflake shop [hifi retailer] in London so they could do a head to head comparison over a week with commercial loudspeakers. I was expecting a good spanking, but the feedback was they performed incredibly well even without a sub [remarkable for 3L enclosures].

One criticism was a slightly shouty top end, however other people like the "detail" just shows how subjective it is!

I don't profess to be an expert, more a paper and scissors guy who loves to experiment rather than sticking doggedly to convention!

 

[wizer]

I love those round ones, very cool. Wish I had a lathe

 

[smallangryboy]

I have a guy called Gary Rance to thank for the spherical speakers. Made entirely from solid American Black Walnut, hand turned.

They look, feel and sound gorgeous

 

[DaveL]

I have a guy called Gary Rance to thank for the spherical speakers.

No wonder they look good, I have stood and watched Gary at shows. He, while talking to continuously to the crowd turned an odd lump of wood into an apple, before our very eyes.
Nice chap to talk to and explained all sorts of things to this flat boarder. :roll:

 

[Harlequin]

Hi All

Forum Newbie - so please be kind :lol:

Love those designs - especially the longball.
FWIW - I like fullrangers myself.
All speakers are compramises and accuracy does not always mean enjoyable sound.
Valve amplifiers for example have a huge amount of distortion compared to transistor based designs and yet quite often provide the better musical experience.
Your speakers with sensitive drivers like those will sound great with a 10 watt SET amp.

 

[smallangryboy]

Would love to hear them with a valve amp