Simple bookcase - advice please

[trumpetmonkey]

Hi,

I have a commission to design and build a simple low, floorstanding 2 shelf bookcase for the corner of a kitchen, for a collection of cookery books.

Please offer me any advice you can - suggestions for a cost effective approach, and what you would consider a fair labour price. I work with wood but I am a relative novice to furniture making.

I am thinking of presenting 2 options
1: very basic and easy and cheap - Maple veneered MDF panel construction using Miller dowels and iron on edge veneer. (comments?)
2: Real wood, with some nice detailing, hidden biscuit joints.

Thanks

 

[TrimTheKing]

Hi Alastair

I guess the question really has to be

1/ 'how much does the client want to pay for it?', then you can decide what materials and construction methods.

2/ Regarding labour charges, is the 'client' a friend who is going to want 'friends rates' or can you charge a fair rate?

3/ What is your skill level? By that I mean how quickly can you realistically complete it to a saleable standard? This will also be a factor because you could decide on a labour rate of £15-20ph but if you are such a spaz (like me ) that it takes you 20 hours when it would take a more capable person 5 then you might make it too expensive for anyone to be able to afford.

4/ Lastly, is this for making a living or for some pocket money?

If the answer to I would find out the answer to the first (and second) question, then number 4, then you can decide how much you want to make out of the job, after materials, then find out whether it is realistic.

Sorry if that isn't very helpful but it's probably the way I would go about it.

 

[trumpetmonkey]

Hi Mark, Thanks for replying.

Client is not exactly a friend, but someone I did know previously through the local church and they live just round the corner.

I want to be as reasonable as possible, they don't want to spend loads, and it is my first job of this type. I will be a bit slow!

Having said that, this is my living, I don't have another job! And I have a habit of undercharging which I will have to nip in the bud eventually.

I've been typing out a quote for them, with sketchup images, will post this shortly for further feedback...

 

[trumpetmonkey]

Hey, can someone tell me how to add images/files off my computer? I'm used to using the ultmatehandyman forum which has exactly the same template as this, except it also has an easy image upload section on the post reply area.

 

[eoinsgaff]

Charging too little is a bigger sin that charging too much as it makes sinners of us all...

 

[trumpetmonkey]

Charging too little is a bigger sin that charging too much as it makes sinners of us all...

Hmmmmm I'm going to think about that.

Still waiting for some advice on uploading pics....

 

[TrimTheKing]

Charging too little is a bigger sin that charging too much as it makes sinners of us all...

Hmmmmm I'm going to think about that.

Still waiting for some advice on uploading pics....

You need to host the pics on something like photobucket then link to them from there. You can't link from PC or upload directly to the forum.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, I make this kind of thing all the time. Use real wood, a decent pine, but make sure you use a thickish wood, 1 inch plus , as it looks alot better.
As for price, what I do is charge what I would expect to pay. Ask the other half.

Koolwabbit

 

[trumpetmonkey]

Hi, I make this kind of thing all the time. Use real wood, a decent pine, but make sure you use a thickish wood, 1 inch plus , as it looks alot better.
As for price, what I do is charge what I would expect to pay. Ask the other half.

Koolwabbit

They don't want pine, but a light hardwood similar to a nearby table, so I'm suggesting maple.

I'm in the process of getting pics somewhere I can link to them to display in the forum, but I have done a very basic design with a price breakdown as follows:

Maple Veneer 18mm MDF (8' x 4' sheet) £50ish (from Arnold Lavers)
Miller Dowel kit £20
Iron on veneer £10
Glue and finishing £20
Labour £100

= £200 total

How does that sound?

I'm assuming it's got to be a lot more expensive to use real hardwood right?

 

[trumpetmonkey]

OK, let's see if this works:

[/img]http://www.mediafire.com/file/lzzktmgrmkw/Quote Helliwell Bookcase.pdf[/img]

 

[TrimTheKing]

OK, let's see if this works:

[/img]http://www.mediafire.com/file/lzzktmgrmkw/Quote Helliwell Bookcase.pdf[/img]

Almost, but on mediafire is there an IMG link provided for you like I get on Photobucket? If so then you just need to paste this into here and it will work.

Otherwise I tried your link and it was asking if I wanted to download, I clicked on the 'view image' button which gave me this

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php? ... ytcwzjqmfx

but putting tags around it doesn;t appear to dissplay it. You need to see if they give you an IMG url.

The second one is a PDF so you won't be able to link that as an image.

 

[seanybaby]

I don't think i'd like to see the dowels in the sides. If you want to use them, fairplay, but make them hidden. Why not use biscuits?

Also make the shelves adjustable :wink:

 

[trumpetmonkey]

I don't think i'd like to see the dowels in the sides. If you want to use them, fairplay, but make them hidden. Why not use biscuits?

Also make the shelves adjustable :wink:

yes, that's a fair comment, but I'm thinking to do them in contrasting wood and place them carefully so they make an interesting feature. Obviously they'd be sanded flush. Still, I was wondering if it really worked. The big motivation was ease and speed.

Don't have a biscuit jointer currently, getting a router soon, but I guess I can't use that to cut a biscuit in the a face. Could use normal dowels. Think it'll be ok fixing middle shelf, there's just one and it's for a specific set of books. i figured it'd all be a bit stronger as well.

I'll see if this image link works:



Aha!




And here is a link to the quote I will send, with more pics and details - comments appreciated.

http://www.mediafire.com/?lzzktmgrmkw

 

[speed]

rather than dowels could you not use pocket hole joinery?

its only £16 for the mini jig
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=44

that way the bottom shelf/ plynth fixings wont be seen and the mid shelf and top will only be seen if you look under the shelf, but you can get plugs for a few pence each

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=44

i would also avoid iron on edging, you will be better off using some timber

 

[pren]

Hi.

I made this bookcase for my wife's classroom a while ago.

It was a real rush job so there was no time for any 'pretty' joinery. The shelves and base are located in 5mm deep rebates and are secured with glue and screws. The top is sat on top of the sides and is screwed and glued down. The strength comes largely from the 6mm backpanel which is held in a 5mm deep rebate set approx 20mm in from the back edge. This is glued and pinned in place.

I've never worked with veneered MDF before, but I'd secure the top and bottom with screws and try and counterbore them before covering them over with plugs cut from some scrap Maple MDF. No idea if this is possible with veneered MDF without ruining the veneer, tho. The middle shelf could then be made adjustable, sitting on metal shelf support/dowels. Apologies if this is all well known to you.

I think I've begun to come out of my 'undercharging' phase after 6mths or so of making items for others. I used to shy away from charging people, often refusing to take any money for my work (other than materials). I've learned now that the job costs what it costs.

If the client wants a unit made to match something else, then they can only compromise on the materials or design, not your time and effort. I'd give them your quote. If it was too much, suggest that it can be made from Maple 'effect' chipboard (MFC) to reduce costs a bit. If it's still too much, I'd suggest they look for something off the shelf ('scuse the pun :lol: ). If they find something suitable - fine. If not, they may realise that bespoke work is worth paying for.

 

[speed]

rather than dowels could you not use pocket hole joinery?

its only £16 for the mini jig
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=44

that way the bottom shelf/ plynth fixings wont be seen and the mid shelf and top will only be seen if you look under the shelf, but you can get plugs for a few pence each

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=44

i would also avoid iron on edging, you will be better off using some timber

 

[BradNaylor]

Use real wood, a decent pine

An oxymoron, surely!

 

[trumpetmonkey]

Gave them the quote and it's too expensive for them. So be it.

Pren, how much did you charge for that basic bookcase out of interest? Or if it was a freebee, what do you think you would have charged otherwise, to cover all materials and labour. Was it painted MDF?

 

[cambournepete]

Gave them the quote and it's too expensive for them. So be it.

Maybe they should go to Ikea then... :twisted:

Custom furniture will always be more expensive than mass produced.
I thought your quote was very reasonable actually.

 

[pren]

The bookcase was indeed a freebie. The wife's schools budget is approximately zero and she needed some new storage.

If I was charging for it, I'd have gone with £70 per day plus materials + consumeables. I was able to make this bookcase in a day.

I know this will seem really low compared to the professional rates but I'm still at the upper edge of the 'paying hobby / learning as I go' stage. I was taking one day off from work a week to work on things like this. I was making £60 per day from work so I figured I'd aim to match that until my speed/skills improved.

I still feel really awkward charging friends and family for my work. I recently made a desk and bench set for my mother in law to give to her grandson. She wanted me to charge her my normal rate as she knew I was being made redundant. I estimated a day and a half to complete it which, at £130 inc materials, was going to be way too much for what it was and what she could afford. In the end I went back on my 'don't compromise on time & effort' rule and did it as a gift, asking her to cover my costs for materials.

I look on 'freebies' like these as learning experiences. I now know what i would do differently, what techniques are quicker and what sort of quality I can turn out in a certain amount of time. Unfortunately it's a lot harder to make a living from free work. :roll: :lol: