Shoulder Plane Question

[custard]

Some years ago I had a Record 311 shoulder plane, the type that can be converted to a chisel plane, bull nose plane, and a regular shoulder plane. It wasn't very good (the part that supports the blade was minutely twisted relative to the sole, plus the bull nose attachment didn't line up properly with the body) so I sold it.

I could do with a good chisel style and bull nose style shoulder plane for sizing rebates precisely and right into corners. I get by with chisels, router planes, and a big chisel plane, but I can't deny the job would benefit from a dedicated tool.

So the question is, has anyone any real, hands-on experience of the Clifton 311 in all its guises, and if so would you recommend it? Alternatively does anyone know of a good quality bull nose shoulder plane that can be converted to a chisel plane configuration?

Thanks.

 

[D_W]

I'll bet you could find an old bullnose infill pretty cheaply. An english friend brought me a slater bullnose with no iron a few years ago (it was his father's) and dropped it off. It's a very nice plane to use as a bullnose, quite capable (it required making an iron, of course, but the irons are small and easy to cut and file out).

For rabbets, I think a rabbet plane is a much nicer tool to work with, but it does still need to be crisp and in good working order. I've had various shoulder planes and still have two infills (more for novelty now than anything), but prefer a good wooden rabbet, which will do both coarse and fine work with ease (and is cheap to buy, and easy to true to square if needed).

I never liked any chisel plane that I've used, nor any of the transformers style three in one types.

 

[custard]

Thanks DW, but the chisel plane application is the critical bit. It's for drop-in upholstered seats, so internal rebates that run around corners on a trapezoid shape, and all the rebates on all the sides need to be made precisely co-planar. or else the seat rocks (and not in a good way!).

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I've had a Clifton 3110 since not long after they were first offered, and it's been an absolutely superb tool. However, I can't recall ever having used it in 'chisel' configuration. If I have any grumble at all, it is that some of the casting edges by the logos, where you naturally tend to grasp the plane, could do with a bit of softening - but that's easy enough with a scrap of wet-and-dry.

A few years ago I saw an article in one of the woodworking magazines (probably F&C) in which Rob Stoakley compared some of the available shoulder planes from the better manufacturers. Slightly to his surprise, the Cliftons came out best, one feature being that they were flatter in the sole than their competitors. The brand has had a change of owner since then, but I suspect the methods of manufacture are the same as they were.

I'm sure one of the more reputable suppliers would let you try one on approval. Your needs and expectations are probably several grades above mine, but even so I doubt you'd be seriously disappointed.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I haven't yet felt the need to spend the money on any Clifton kit (probably more indicative of my skill level than my Scots ancestry!).

A few months ago I got one of the new Axminster Rider 3-in-1 jobs and after a bit of fairly strenuous fettling of the blade it works very nicely (I can't find anything wrong with the accuracy of the castings - my only quibble was they didn't provide an Allen key). I guess if you tried one, you'd find it easy to return to Axi if it doesn't meet your more exacting standards.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ri ... ane-506567

Cheers W2S

PS I suppose a Side Rebate plane is out of the question? The QS and Veritas ones are nice-looking.

 

[Zeddedhed]

I have the Rider 3 in 1 and it's the second one I've had. It may be going back. It also suffers from the extremely slight non-co-planarity (is that a word?) of the iron supporting bed with the sole. Also the blade is MUCH too override. A smidgen I could understand but 2mm?

So don't buy one of them Custard.

 

[bugbear]

Thanks DW, but the chisel plane application is the critical bit. It's for drop-in upholstered seats, so internal rebates that run around corners on a trapezoid shape, and all the rebates on all the sides need to be made precisely co-planar. or else the seat rocks (and not in a good way!).

Perhaps a fixed-body shoulder plane and a cranked paring chisel might be a better way to spend about the same money?

BugBear

 

[PAC1]

I have the Clifton and think it is great. I do not use it in Chisel plane mode very often but I think it is a bit clunky and heavy as a chisel plane. It works but is uncomfortable to hold. I would not be without by 3110 though for shoulders and raised panels.
I bought the Clifton 400 rebate/shoulder plane for tidying rebates in difficult situations that is a very nice comfortable plane that works excellently. It will not get right into the corners but it is excellent for awkward rebates. It is only 11mm wide
You could also use a router plane as long as you have a flat reference and the rebate is not too deep

 

[D_W]

Thanks DW, but the chisel plane application is the critical bit. It's for drop-in upholstered seats, so internal rebates that run around corners on a trapezoid shape, and all the rebates on all the sides need to be made precisely co-planar. or else the seat rocks (and not in a good way!).

I'd bet you could make something better for that than a short soled disassembled plane. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything right now. I never much liked the chisel planes because they don't have a way to regulate depth if you're running into something steep.

 

[AJB Temple]

I also have the Clifton 3110. The one I have now is my second (first was stolen) and I bought it on eBay (boxed and as far as I can see virtually unused) for £96 including a new spare blade a few months ago. In my opinion it is an excellent tool, including the chisel plane mode. Supremely well made.

Having said that, the Clifton is the only 3 in one plane I have ever had (my first one was bought new) so I have nothing to compare it against. I used up two blades in the original (possibly over indulgent with sharpening) so it saw a fair amount of work before it was taken.

 

[AJB Temple]

PS. I used the chisel mode for cleaning up inside rebates, neck slots etc in solid body guitars among other things, so not dissimilar to your intended use. Most of the time I was working in mahogany. Sometimes it felt a bit too big for the job.

 

[Jacob]

I'd try another Record 311. They are normally spot on.

 

[custard]

I never much liked the chisel planes because they don't have a way to regulate depth if you're running into something steep.

I get that, the back tends to lift and before you know it the blade dives down and has taken out a big divot. I think the best plan is a very shallow cut and more downward pressure further back than feels natural.

 

[custard]

I suppose a Side Rebate plane is out of the question? The QS and Veritas ones are nice-looking.

I've tried the Veritas version, works great for it's intended function of slightly enlarging a groove. Probably lack of skill on my part, but used on the floor of a rebate I struggle to hold the rebate profile at a crisp 90 degrees, it feels okay during the cut but when I check it with a square it's always opened up a bit wider.

 

[Jelly]

Thanks DW, but the chisel plane application is the critical bit. It's for drop-in upholstered seats, so internal rebates that run around corners on a trapezoid shape, and all the rebates on all the sides need to be made precisely co-planar. or else the seat rocks (and not in a good way!).

Perhaps a fixed-body shoulder plane and a cranked paring chisel might be a better way to spend about the same money?

BugBear

I'd be inclined to agree there, having done more or less the same operation as Custard is talking about literally thousands of times on a production cell that prepared windows for glazing (unfortunately the very high spec, high r-value panes they used needed to fit perfectly flat to actually meet their rated value).

I'd be inclined to choose, a shoulder plane to establish the planar surface, and a pair of cranked skew paring chisels which can continue that surface referencing off it.

YMMV

 

[custard]

Thanks for the comments, I'll keep looking on Ebay for a used 311 or 3110. Maybe I'll be as lucky as AJB!

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Also keep an eye out for a (vintage) Stanley #93. These convert to chisel planes, plus they are decent shoulder planes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I suppose a Side Rebate plane is out of the question? The QS and Veritas ones are nice-looking.

I've tried the Veritas version, works great for it's intended function of slightly enlarging a groove. Probably lack of skill on my part, but used on the floor of a rebate I struggle to hold the rebate profile at a crisp 90 degrees, it feels okay during the cut but when I check it with a square it's always opened up a bit wider.

I see your point, but I guess the little 'fence' could be enhanced/replaced with a small auxiliary one? - Cheers, W2S

 

[bugbear]

I used up two blades in the original...

That would be ... surprising in a bench plane, used for lots of heavy stock removal. In a shoulder plane it's ... amazing.

BugBear

 

[Harbo]

What about the Veritas Bullnose plane which converts into a chisel one?

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.a ... 1182,68490

Rod