should i just bite the bullet and get a sorby pro edge?

[Random Orbital Bob]

I rarely use the angle jig for the skew now. I have the platen set at the 15 degree angle but I freehand the edge because I like a slight convex radius on the skew edge which helps to avoid catches when rolling beads and doing planing cuts. (It grinds the wings further back) So when grinding my skew, particularly the 1/2", I rock the edge side to side to keep the radius. That makes the little triangular insert jig redundant for me, the platen is doing all the donkey work by preserving the bevel angle and I eyeball the radius.

I don't think i would have bought the skew jig independently.
In my day of shaping and sharpening on Sunday, I re-visited all of my skews.
My favourite is a Sorby oval 1½" oval skew. Trying to use that on the flat bed of the jig was little better than on any bench grinder and the jig was no great help. I tend to only use it for final smoothing cuts so I try to keep it mirror sharp and polished like a carving tool, so fine sharpen it on a strop anyway.
Like you I also like a curved skew, here the exact angle from the SPE tool rest helps control the angle and the curve then is easy and quick to grind freehand.
I've also a couple of smaller skews for tight work and used the skew jig, which worked, but was no great advantage compared to just using the SPE rest.

Yes the PE certainly hasn't helped solve the old problem of the oval skew being unstable because of the flat platform. I would probably have avoided buying the triangular jig too but I bought the PE a year ago 2nd hand (from here in fact) and it all came bundled. Where it does have a use is when restoring a seriously knackered skew. At a recent club meet I tend to get asked to bring the PE along and "help" some of the newer members with their sharpening training. Inevitably they bring their dinged chisels! Never in my life have I seen such badly treated skews! One chap had a "skew" that was basically square. I asked him was he sure it wasn't meant to be a scraper.....he looked upset! That sucker took about 20 minutes with the 60g ceramic and I was thankful for the guide that time to keep the 60 degree accurate.

The other challenge we keep bumping into is getting a 30 degree bevel on a detail gouge....the handle fouls on the motor housing. I've been in dialogue with Sorby about it because it is quite a weak spot given any serious turner will need a spindle gouge that can access tight spots. They've told me they're "stir frying it in the corporate wok". Lets see if any mods come out??? You can get as low as 35 but a particularly gifted master turner from my club was disappointed it wouldn't and actually prevented him from buying one....so its clearly a major weakness.

 

[Rhossydd]

And there is the crucial point about jigs and specifically those for winged gouges, to gain maximum benefit of speed and consistent profile of the jig you need a jig set and fixed for each tool.

If this was posted on Facebook or Twitter it should probably be tagged #firstworldproblem ;-)

I think it will only be the more advanced turners that own and use multiple winged gouges, so talking of needing a jig each gouge may mislead the novices who are reading this thread.
When starting out you can get a lot done with just the basic tools and the range of sharpening angles isn't that big to start with.

 

[woodpig]

I tend to only use it for final smoothing cuts so I try to keep it mirror sharp and polished like a carving tool, so fine sharpen it on a strop anyway.
Like you I also like a curved skew, here the exact angle from the SPE tool rest helps control the angle and the curve then is easy and quick to grind freehand.
I've also a couple of smaller skews for tight work and used the skew jig, which worked, but was no great advantage compared to just using the SPE rest.

That's quite timely for me. I bought a small skew some time ago that I've not used yet. When I checked my tools the other day I noticed it's (as bought) curved grind was quite rough so I guess I'll need to address that with a 240 grit belt.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

The PE will eat that for breakfast. It really is no sweat at all to keep a gentle radiused edge because the platform keeps everything stable and angled correctly, you just gently rock the tool beyond the normal rake angle on each side

 

[CHJ]

And there is the crucial point about jigs and specifically those for winged gouges, to gain maximum benefit of speed and consistent profile of the jig you need a jig set and fixed for each tool.

If this was posted on Facebook or Twitter it should probably be tagged #firstworldproblem ;-)

I think it will only be the more advanced turners that own and use multiple winged gouges, so talking of needing a jig each gouge may mislead the novices who are reading this thread.
When starting out you can get a lot done with just the basic tools and the range of sharpening angles isn't that big to start with.

And to be honest this is another case of slight mis-quotes out of context that cause problems.
The original quote is from an article relating to the Tormek 'Touch and Turn' doctoring which is almost impossible to achieve in it's nth. degree without locked jigs due to the slow material removal. Requiring testing each time with felt tip pen markers to check etc.

But it has a limited relevance to the same problem using more aggressive grinding media be it wheels or belts if speed of jig use is to match the speed of free hand grinding which for a novice may be a skill years down the line.

Any novice that is lead to believe that an all singing and dancing adjustable jig is going to make sharpening a simple breeze is in for the same frustrating education in practice to the fact that in a lot of instances it takes far longer to set up the jig than it does the actual refreshing of the cutting edge if you have more than one bevel profile.
Even two basic bowl gouges aiming at bulk material removal and finishing off the bottom of a deep bowl will need a jig adjustment.

 

[woodpig]

The Tormek jig could be better in this regard and perhaps Sorby should have made their own superior version?

 

[Lons]

So why keep an expensive pro edge Jacob if the Bosch does all you say it does? Why not sell it and use the proceeds to get several more belt sanders and set them up separately.....!

If you need a sander a GB75 will double as a sharpener thanks to it's square box shape (no mounting etc).
Principle drawback being the noise.
A dedicated "sander" the Pro edge is better in general - quieter but for sharpening only, and a lot of additional expense.
But a GB75 is much better than a Pro-edge if you want to shape a wide thick plane blade e.g. from an old woody or one of the modern retro designs. Choices, choices.

On jigs - if people want to use profiles which can only be produced with a jig then jig it must be. But one might ask whether these profiles are necessary.

Fair enough Jacob
So in conclusion,
1). The fact you won't part with your PE strongly suggests that it's a useful addition to your workshop and works well or you would sell it!
2). The op original question referred only to his chisels therefore the pro edge would handle those with ease.
3). If people want to use jigs then that's ok by you but maybe they shouldn't be using non standard profiles? In which case who says any profile should be a standard as originally profiles would have been arrived at by experimentation, exactly what some turners do regularly to achieve a specific aim.

Bob

 

[Rhossydd]

Any novice that is lead to believe that an all singing and dancing adjustable jig is going to make sharpening a simple breeze is in for the same frustrating education in practice to the fact that in a lot of instances it takes far longer to set up the jig than it does the actual refreshing of the cutting edge if you have more than one bevel profile.

Have you actually used a SPE ?
Swapping between angles on the tool rest really IS fast.
I never used fingernail grinds for years, so the standard gouge jig works well for spindle and bowl gouges and effectively needs no set up at all. However, as pointed out earlier, even swapping to a fingernail jig and popping the tool in takes less than 90s. Maybe add an extra minute first time to get the setting right, but it really is that simple.

For the budgetary challenged; It's not hard to make similarly fast to swap wooden jigs(tool rests) for a cheap bench grinder too.

The real message is that sharpening woodturning tools doesn't have to be a trial of skill, that's time consuming with a tricky learning curve. It can be fast and easy.

 

[Lons]

Yes the PE certainly hasn't helped solve the old problem of the oval skew being unstable because of the flat platform. I would probably have avoided buying the triangular jig too but I bought the PE a year ago 2nd hand (from here in fact) and it all came bundled.

Same here Bob and I have't had my PE very long.
I personally don't find my oval skew any problem though without the triangular jig, however it would be very simple to make up a jig to suit the oval skew. Just a strip of metal runner screwed to a wood, plastic or metal carrier hollowed out to suit the curve of the skew. I might try it out of interest if I can find a spare half an hour.

cheers
Bob

 

[Lons]

The real message is that sharpening woodturning tools doesn't have to be a trial of skill, that's time consuming with a tricky learning curve. It can be fast and easy.

And that is the real heart of any sharpening argument! =D>

What some people don't seem to realise is that not everyone has spare time or even the motivation they want to spend learning hand sharpening skills, they work full time and have family and other commitments so time spent actually making things is scarce and not to be "wasted" on laborious tasks. They do however need sharp tools to achieve those aims so anything that produces a repeatable consistant sharp edge with the least effort is worthwhile considering.
That applies to me even though I'm reasonably proficient at sharpening by hand but I keep that skill for my carving chisels these days.

Bob

 

[Dalboy]

With all the time spent discussing this topic you could all have turned something and posted it. All I say is each to their own.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes, the bullet that might have been bitten has probably gone up in price by now.

 

[Lons]

With all the time spent discussing this topic you could all have turned something and posted it. All I say is each to their own.

I get a lot of coffee breaks Derek :wink: :lol:

 

[Dalboy]

With all the time spent discussing this topic you could all have turned something and posted it. All I say is each to their own.

I get a lot of coffee breaks Derek :wink: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You know me so well

 

[CHJ]

Any novice that is lead to believe that an all singing and dancing adjustable jig is going to make sharpening a simple breeze is in for the same frustrating education in practice to the fact that in a lot of instances it takes far longer to set up the jig than it does the actual refreshing of the cutting edge if you have more than one bevel profile.

Have you actually used a SPE ?

Yes I have, and if one eventually comes my way priced to suit my spare pocket money at the time I will probably get it, not necessarily for turning tools though, and I will expect it to join the other 5 sharpening machines I have set up for various tasks between wood and metal turning and flatwork.

[Swapping between angles on the tool rest really IS fast.

As it can be on any rest system suitably indexed, adjustment of the angles on a fingernail pivoting jig takes a little more care if you only have one to hand.

For the budgetary challenged; It's not hard to make similarly fast to swap wooden jigs(tool rests) for a cheap bench grinder too.

If you have a look at my crude Projects listing I think it will be obvious that I am not averse to using basic tools and have encouraged others to do the same, and have over the last ten years stayed with the crudest setup that gives me the results I need.

 

[bugbear]

... over the last ten years stayed with the crudest setup that gives me the results I need.

The old saying:

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler".

BugBear

 

[Rhossydd]

Yes, the bullet that might have been bitten has probably gone up in price by now.

These days that's not nearly so likely, quite possibly the reverse.
If it hadn't been for this thread I might not have noticed the current deal at Yandles which is the best I've ever seen and helped convince me to get the credit card out.

 

[Rhossydd]

With all the time spent discussing this topic you could all have turned something and posted it. All I say is each to their own.

No point in blundering on with blunt tools.
Forums aren't just for showing off, they're also for getting information, sharing experiences, discussing options and helping people. This thread has done a lot of the later.

 

[CHJ]

The Tormek jig could be better in this regard and perhaps Sorby should have made their own superior version?

I understand that there could have been problems with arguments about patent infringement and production costs that may have led to the original choice to use the Tormek head but one using the same geometry and dimensions but with fine knurled/milled face and location key between the two swivelling sections that allowed positive location of the two pieces in small degree steps could have been far superior to the 5 or 6 crude moulded indentations used as visual guides on the current unit for those wishing to adjust the angle at regular intervals.

When I was in a phase with fewer heads to set and was experimenting with needed geometry to get the shapes I wanted I used MDF templates to repeat the angle quicker and ignored the guide indentations.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

The Tormek jig could be better in this regard and perhaps Sorby should have made their own superior version?

Sorby's elliptical grinding jig IS the Tormek jig. They licence it from Tormek as it's still patented.