"semi-political" rant

[AES]

Rant On:
I heard on BBC Radio 4 yesterday that Union flags are being flown at half-mast on official buildings in London because the king of Saudi Arabia died.

Can anyone tell me why? When the Queen Mum died, or when QE2 dies, did/will Saudi Arabia fly their flag at half-mast on their official buildings?

And if, as reported by BBC, for the UK not to do so would be a mark of disrespect (to Saudi Arabia and/or it's King?), can someone please tell me why here where I live (Switzerland) we're not flying flags at half mast, nor, as far as I know, are our immediate neighbours (Germany, France, Austria).

I do NOT want to get into political stuff like human rights and Israel v Islam, etc, etc, but as above, just saying "oil" cannot be a reason for UK to fly flags at half mast (or not in my eyes anyway).

So what do the members here think?

Personally I genuinely do NOT understand this decision, which, according to the BBC, was based on "UK Government guidelines".

Rant OFF:

AES

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

because the current and historic diplomatic relationship between the UK and much of the middle east including Saudi is longeve, complex and for the most part positive.

 

[Doug B]

I do NOT want to get into political stuff like human rights and Israel v Islam, etc, etc, but as above, just saying "oil" cannot be a reason for UK to fly flags at half mast (or not in my eyes anyway).

Why? Can anyone really think that the wars in Irac & Afganistan have been for anything else than oil, all the reasons I've heard of for going to war are happening in other parts of the world but we don't intervene there.

Look on the bright side it cost cumquat all to lower the flags compared to the billions we've spent on wars that we can ill afford to spend & from the state of high alert most countries are now at, clearly all it has achieved is to stir up a hornets nest.

 

[Mike.S]

I don't know but I wonder whether or not it's because the UK is still a monarchy - like Saudi - which Switzerland, France, Germany etc are not.

 

[monkeybiter]

It's little to do with oil and recent wars, probably nothing to do with our monarchy, more about staying on the right side of the new regime in a part of the world that's becoming increasingly unstable and hostile.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Like I said its all part of diplomacy. This country has a very long history and positive trading relationship with Saudi. In particular heavy engineering (civil construction , oil and gas). They spend many millions on white collar industries like consulting engineering as they spend their vast wealth in oil revenues developing infrastructure, tourism and yes also defence.

If you understand the nature of the command and control structures in Saudi you will realise that its essentially a benevolent oligarchy where the power and wealth is concentrated in the hands of these "royal" families. You might also call it a monarchy but its not in the same way we are of course. All of Europe and the US are constantly in competition for that engineering business and sophisticated diplomacy (which necessarily is targeted at the decision makers ie the royal families) is one way to keep influencing those target audiences.

This is about business and good relations for the purpose of positive influence. As indeed is all diplomacy. It's just that this is at the macro level, the state level.

 

[Max Power]

Agree Mike, its diplomacy at work to enhance/secure our standing with the Saudis, who must be the only nation ahead of Isis in the beheading stakes. I wish the scientists would hurry up and find a viable alternative to oil.

 

[Mike.S]

I don't think it's Saudi/oil/ally etc specific, but just normal practice when a 'fellow' monarch has died. An article in the Guardian appears to support this view.

 

[Droogs]

The Union flag may only be flown at "half mast" at the behest of the reigning monarch on all crown and governmental/public buildings. It is normally done when a monarch, heir apparent or a person deemed to be held in high deference by the nation has died. On the night that the Princess of Wales died I was on duty as the Guard commander at my unit and initially received instruction not to lower the Flag to half mast but was then instructed to do so a couple of hours later. I was also on duty the night that a large section of the Nepalese royal family were murdered including the then king and his heir and was instructed to lower the Union Flag flown on top of the governers tower at Edinburgh castle to half mast.

 

[AES]

Thanks for that Droogs, a very helpful reply (and I'm NOT being sarcastic here, and neither was I intending any sarcasm in my OP).

Thanks
AES

 

[doorframe]

The answer is simple. Diplomacy. "We don't give a toss, but there's a lot of money involved".

Indeed, an answer that could be used for many of the problems in our world today.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

An impression given by some media commentators is that most Saudis basically think the same. They don't. There's quite a battle going on between the ultra-conservative religious Saudis and the more open-minded modernisers, and the 'government' has a difficult job keeping a lid on the stuggle between the factions. Clearly, most in the free West would rather see the modernisers getting the upper hand, but the religious factions are powerful enough to destabilise the Middle East even more if they are provoked too much (they are already a major problem through such sects as Wahabiism).

Liberalising Saudi Arabia will probably have to happen a step at a time; Western diplomacy is based on keeping a broadly moderate and pro-Western government in power. It's better for the West than a fundamentalist Islamic one would be.

 

[lurker]

"we" have been in the Saudi 's pocket a long long time. They have money therefore rule us. Like it or not.

 

[whiskywill]

It was interesting to hear that the population of Saudi Arabia is 28 million, 8 million of which are ex-pats who do most of the work.