saw blade advice please

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sunnybob

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My very limited workshop inventory includes a Ryobi combination mitre saw and table saw. For my particular needs, thats pretty fine. But...
the supplied blade takes out 3mm of wood with every cut. OK on house building timber, but I'm making mostly trinket and jewellery boxes and thats wasting a lot of wood each time I use the table saw.

i have seen advertised fine cut blades of much thinner width and claiming to give a smoother cut.
Is this true?
can anyone tell me what type of blade will give a more precise cut?
thanks.
 
A thinner blade and a smoother cut are a bit of a contradiction in terms. Thinner blades took off with cordless saws, where the thinner kerf eases the load on the battery, but a thinner saw plate doesn't have the rigidity of a traditional saw, and that additional play reveals itself in a more ragged cut.

For jewellery boxes I'd prioritise a cleaner cut above saving a bit of timber, and therefore I'd spend my time and money on a fine tooth traditional blade, regular saw blade sharpening, and a zero clearance insert.

If you want an almost zero kerf in order to flow an unbroken grain pattern around a corner then there are some fairly specialised sawing techniques involving cross cutting at a 45 degree angle with the saw blade barely breaking the show face surface, and then flipping the "off-cut" around and trimming that to a mating 45 degree angle. Alternatively a Japanese hand saw well handled and a clean up on a shooting board can reduce the kerf to under a mill.

Good luck!
 
Whilst you are not going to get a zero kerf on any blade, you can improve of the standard 3.2mm (1/8") kerf of a traditional blade. without losing too much in the rigidity department.
I use a Freud Thin Kerf blade for most of my work (well, for all of it at the moment, it's all I have). It is 2.6mm wide and I am pleased with the surface it leaves.
Whether the saving in timber justifies the cost is a matter that only you can decide. Personally, I have no regrets about buying it.
Steve
 
For jewellery boxes I'd prioritise a cleaner cut above saving a bit of timber, and therefore I'd spend my time and money on a fine tooth traditional blade, regular saw blade sharpening, and a zero clearance insert.


I'm extremely new at this game, any chance of a brand name you could recommend or I could look up please?
 
Steve Maskery":14h4fles said:
Whilst you are not going to get a zero kerf on any blade, you can improve of the standard 3.2mm (1/8") kerf of a traditional blade. without losing too much in the rigidity department.
I use a Freud Thin Kerf blade for most of my work (well, for all of it at the moment, it's all I have). It is 2.6mm wide and I am pleased with the surface it leaves.
Whether the saving in timber justifies the cost is a matter that only you can decide. Personally, I have no regrets about buying it.
Steve

I found that blade online, but it would be around a £100 for me. Thats an awful lot of wood to save to pay for that. any other (cheaper) options?
 
If you are saving 0.5mm each cut, any blade is not going to offer a financial saving very quickly. Personally, if the only objective is to save wood then I wouldn't bother. If you need a new blade, then choose a decent one from the likes of wealdon tools, and don't worry too much about the kerf thickness. Pay more attention to having the right tooth count and plenty of carbide on so you can have it re sharpened many times. Cheap blades often work out as a false economy.
 
Defintely you can get a finer/thinner blade - but one thing you will need to be very careful with is the riving knife thickness .
If the blade kerf is thinner than the riving knife then there is a risk of a jam .
Probably the very next step before looking for blades is to measure your riving knife and refer to the
specifications of blade thickness in the saw manual - if it is specified.

Assuming your saw has one ---
 
OK, looks like I dont need to spend any money on this. i have no complaints on the cutting ability of the blade, cut some 45 degree mitres today across 80mm of three ply, and it was very acceptable.

I shall just have to bear the extra wood loss on the long runs.
thanks all.
 
cornishjoinery":2zszgkdu said:
Bloody hell mate, how tight are you? You wouldn't last minute in the trade lol

squeek squeek. That tight. :roll:

Thing is, this is a life change retirement hobby, and I've spent a chunk of my money with absolutely no satisfying gain yet. I'm teetering on the verge of despair, and have reached the stage where no more cash goes out until i see something I can be proud of.

I am still struggling with getting edges straight and parallel. Tools that I believed would do this for me, arent.
Chisels that should be sharp have less cutting edge than my electrical screwdriver.
i dont have much patience, which is why my ambitions are as lowly as square boxes, but even they are defeating me.

There, that'll teach to to ask.

seperately, I used to work all around somerset devon and cornwall, I miss those villages and scenery (but not enough to go back to england for!) 8)
 
sunnybob":2kleuh61 said:
Thing is, this is a life change retirement hobby, and I've spent a chunk of my money with absolutely no satisfying gain yet. I'm teetering on the verge of despair, and have reached the stage where no more cash goes out until i see something I can be proud of.

I am still struggling with getting edges straight and parallel. Tools that I believed would do this for me, arent.
Chisels that should be sharp have less cutting edge than my electrical screwdriver.
i dont have much patience, which is why my ambitions are as lowly as square boxes, but even they are defeating me.

Good for you for telling it like it is. I suspect there are many, many more in the same position, just they don't have the resilience to still be on this forum, nor the honesty to admit it's not working out as they'd hoped.

Woodworking is a wonderful way of occupying yourself. But it's not how it's usually pictured, with lovely projects emerging from the craftsman's bench almost by themselves. In reality it's a slow process, where lots of individual steps have to be accurately completed in the correct order, if you try to rush or skip those steps failure is virtually guaranteed. And the critical first step is to get yourself in the right frame of mind, patient and methodical, focussing just on the individual step that's in front of you, never ever rushing one step in order to get onto the next.

When you've reconciled yourself to the discipline that's required you're ready to get a few basic tools working properly. I'm 100% confident that your tools are capable of doing the job, you just need to figure out what's going wrong and how to put it right, the solutions all do exist even though it sometimes feels the problems are impossibly intractable. No matter how frustrating there's zero point starting to make anything until you've got your tools working right, if you do you'll just face bigger frustrations in the future.

Next step is to have a detailed plan for a simple project with cutting lists, dimensions, and all the jointing and finishing details written down and thoroughly thought through.

Then you need to get the wood and any other consumables. Spend time selecting the right materials, something reasonably stable and easy to work like American Cherry or Honduras Mahogany is a sensible place to begin. They're not cheap woods but for small projects like boxes the cost isn't too bad. Because you've got the cutting list clear in your head you can take the time to select thicknesses that aren't too far from what you finally need, thicknessing with hand tools is arduous so minimise the burden. And don't be tempted by extravagant figure; straight grain that runs the full length of the board and freedom from knots are your friends in the early days.

Next, get the wood flat and true, don't rush this or imagine a board will magically straighten itself later on, unless everything is flat and true the jointing becomes far too difficult for a beginner.

Only then move on to jointing, and take it very very slowly. Practising any new joint on scrap until you're confident.

After that you absolutely must have a dry glue up, when the glue is going off is no time to discover you're missing a cramp or a joint isn't seating properly.

Then take all the preparation time required to sand every surface smooth, working methodically through the grits.

Only when that's completed should you even think about applying a finish. And still at this late stage there are traps waiting for the impatient, if the tin says leave to dry overnight then that's exactly what you must do. If four coats are recommended then apply four coats.

The satisfaction of a good piece well made is worth the effort and the wait.

Good luck!
 
Thank you for the encouragement. I've spent most of my life working with metal. I can make anything I want and its 100% square and all sides are parallel. i just cannot get that with wood. For example I have a mitre saw. i cut a piece of wood off a plank, and the cut is square, but when I cut the other end, the two sides are NOT square.
By the time I have cut a 100mm x 100mm x 30mm blank, not one side matches any other side. If I try to make it better with a belt sander, I get a set of compound angles that would be difficult to replicate on purpose.
Unfortunately I cannot find any other woodworkers any where near me to ask for help, and everything on you tube is done in workshops with thousands of pounds worth of tools.. i can make a small box, and from a distance it can look quite good, but when you pick it up you can see the out of square sides very obviously.
i shall persevere a bit longer, I dont give up easily, but my patience is running low now.
And of course I made a glaring beginners error by buying the crappiest band saw ever sold. the fox has caused me many days of heartache trying to get it even close to its sales literature, again I have failed.

My one success so far is a heart shaped trinket box in mahogany with a walnut base. That one got me into the missuss good books at xmas!
 
sunnybob":2n6xwwh3 said:
I have a mitre saw. i cut a piece of wood off a plank, and the cut is square, but when I cut the other end, the two sides are NOT square.
By the time I have cut a 100mm x 100mm x 30mm blank, not one side matches any other side. If I try to make it better with a belt sander, I get a set of compound angles that would be difficult to replicate on purpose.

Bob, have I understood this? You have a board on your mitre saw, let's say the board is 30mm thick, 100mm wide, and 1000mmm long. You crosscut one end square and it really is square. Then you slide the board along 100mm and make a second cut, but this second cut isn't square, so consequently it isn't parallel to your first cut.

Is that the situation you're describing? If so the most likely explanation is that the the edge of the board that's butting up against the fence isn't straight. You either need to rip it straight on your table saw, or better still in my view, use a hand plane to get it straight.

If that's not the situation you're describing could you put me right.

Incidentally, I've been a woodworker for forty years and there's no way i could correct an out of square component with a belt sander! You sound to me like a man who needs a simple shooting board. There are some really fancy versions out there, but a really basic model based on a 9mm piece of MDF planted on top of an 18mm piece of MDF with a no frills hardwood fence would get you all the accuracy you need for small boxes. 30mm thick timber is approaching the limits of what can be handled on a shooting board, but it's still do-able.
 
heres where I demonstrate just how ignorant of woodworking I am. i am going to have to surf "shooting board".

I used to help my dad in his wood workshop when I was a small boy, I havent touched wood in over 50 years, its all new to me.

I shall return when I know what we're talking about (g)
 
Go for it Bob! You might be better starting off with just a 90 degree shooting board, or a combination one like Paul Sellers shows here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ypbvcxb-8M

In either case you should take note that both videos show very sweet working wood; knot free, flat, true, straight grain. If hunt around for timber like that you'll be making life much, much easier for yourself.

Good luck!
 
Steve Maskery":3u36v5av said:
Whilst you are not going to get a zero kerf on any blade, you can improve of the standard 3.2mm (1/8") kerf of a traditional blade. without losing too much in the rigidity department.
I use a Freud Thin Kerf blade for most of my work (well, for all of it at the moment, it's all I have). It is 2.6mm wide and I am pleased with the surface it leaves.
Whether the saving in timber justifies the cost is a matter that only you can decide. Personally, I have no regrets about buying it.
Steve


Anyone experienced issues with the riving knife fouling when running a thinner blade?
 
custard":1zkxf8md said:
Good for you for telling it like it is. I suspect there are many, many more in the same position, just they don't have the resilience to still be on this forum, nor the honesty to admit it's not working out as they'd hoped.

Woodworking is a wonderful way of occupying yourself. But it's not how it's usually pictured, with lovely projects emerging from the craftsman's bench almost by themselves. In reality it's a slow process, where lots of individual steps have to be accurately completed in the correct order, if you try to rush or skip those steps failure is virtually guaranteed. And the critical first step is to get yourself in the right frame of mind, patient and methodical, focussing just on the individual step that's in front of you, never ever rushing one step in order to get onto the next.

When you've reconciled yourself to the discipline that's required you're ready to get a few basic tools working properly. I'm 100% confident that your tools are capable of doing the job, you just need to figure out what's going wrong and how to put it right, the solutions all do exist even though it sometimes feels the problems are impossibly intractable. No matter how frustrating there's zero point starting to make anything until you've got your tools working right, if you do you'll just face bigger frustrations in the future.

Next step is to have a detailed plan for a simple project with cutting lists, dimensions, and all the jointing and finishing details written down and thoroughly thought through.

Then you need to get the wood and any other consumables. Spend time selecting the right materials, something reasonably stable and easy to work like American Cherry or Honduras Mahogany is a sensible place to begin. They're not cheap woods but for small projects like boxes the cost isn't too bad. Because you've got the cutting list clear in your head you can take the time to select thicknesses that aren't too far from what you finally need, thicknessing with hand tools is arduous so minimise the burden. And don't be tempted by extravagant figure; straight grain that runs the full length of the board and freedom from knots are your friends in the early days.

Next, get the wood flat and true, don't rush this or imagine a board will magically straighten itself later on, unless everything is flat and true the jointing becomes far too difficult for a beginner.

Only then move on to jointing, and take it very very slowly. Practising any new joint on scrap until you're confident.

After that you absolutely must have a dry glue up, when the glue is going off is no time to discover you're missing a cramp or a joint isn't seating properly.

Then take all the preparation time required to sand every surface smooth, working methodically through the grits.

Only when that's completed should you even think about applying a finish. And still at this late stage there are traps waiting for the impatient, if the tin says leave to dry overnight then that's exactly what you must do. If four coats are recommended then apply four coats.

The satisfaction of a good piece well made is worth the effort and the wait.

Good luck!


Bloody good post =D>
Thanks Custard
 
well, I built the shooting block, and i can see it has its uses on soft wood, but its just not working on the mahogany squares i am using. the blade of the plane just digs in every time. I've even used a clamp to hold the small piece to the back stop, but no use.
I know all about the mystique of blade sharpening (thats NOT to say i claim to be an expert, I just know you NEED to be an expert). i have sharpened the plane blade three times now, and still cant get it to take a shaving off the mahogany.
next suggestions please.
 
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