Sacrilege or Sense?

[Sam_Jack]

I rather think I’ve committed a heinous crime; but, ‘tis a matter for the jury now. A while back (a good while back) I used a honing guide to correct an out of square blade from a Stanley #4, it was a mess. Anyway - distracted by a telephone conversation, I forgot to ‘tweek’ the end to the guru’s 30˚ razor edge. I finished it off at 25˚. Here’s the thing – that 1938 (ish) #4 blade has just finished off a truck load op rough sawn hardwood, the last bit just as smooth as the first – give or take- and; IMO, has no need of anything more than a few strokes on the 400, a couple on the 1200 and stropping to be back at it’s best. The workout I gave it was a serious all day event, and it still takes nice shavings, even now.

To the point, so to speak. Is there a need to create cutting edges ‘modified’ beyond the manufacturers recommended design specifications? I also sharpened a few (old) chisels to the same spec; all still cutting well and instead of sharpening after every time I use ‘em, I just put ‘em away and use ‘em again and again.

So, why is there this ‘myth’ about a blade to shave with, when all I need is a blade capable of taking timber, without it needing to be re – sharpened every 100 strokes? That blade, at 25˚has been serviceable longer, leaves a shine, smooth as the proverbial Baby’s bottom and needs less attention, with results as good as any other carefully tuned blade, if not better, for longer.

If Stanley, Bailey and many, many others decided that 25˚was the design angle, why do we keep messing about with that? The obsessive compulsive desire for the perfect ‘angle’ if ever attained. will only survive the first contact with the enemy; then it becomes a matter of endurance. 25˚ seems to last longer – on task. This obsession with shaving hair off arms and slicing through paper cannot compare (IMO) to a blade which can do a full day’s work and come back for more. Is this why makers send out a 25˚ blade to be sharpened, polished and then used with minimum down time and attention needed. Cut wood or fuss about the ‘shaving’?

Dunno – just saying.

 

[Tasky]

SACRILEGE!!!!!

BURN THE UNBELIEVERRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, why is there this ‘myth’ about a blade to shave with

It sells sharpening products.
Thing is, you might think your hand-sharpened blade is good enough, but that's just because you haven't experienced the majesty of this £43,000 scary-sharp sharpener...!!
Funny how everything is an 'experience' these days, and how every product is the 'ultimate [insert industry] experience'...

"Charmin bog roll, the ultimate toilet experience".
It's not an experience if you 'experience' it every day...

As for the 25º thing - Yeah, it will indeed work just fine, in general terms.
There will be some woods and some fine settings that require a different angle but, as someone I know who has been working wood every day for over 50 years will tell you - Manufacturers don't always know best. Their stuff was usually designed by engineers coming up with the latest ideas, rather than by woodworkers with afar better idea of what they actually needed.... and truthfully, you simply sharpen to task. If you need a 30º angle on your blade, sharpen it to that. If you now need 25º, either re-sharpen it or have a second blade at the different angle to just swap out.

It's not that much of a mission and sharpening up as & when usually takes most professional craftsmen just a minute, then they're back to work. Far more productive than the hour-long scary sharp process some people will try and sell you.

 

[Rorschach]

If it's a bevel down plane does it make any difference anyway since the angle of attack is set by the body of the plane?

 

[MikeG.]

I never measure mine. I don't actually know what angle they are. They're very sharp, square (chisels, that is), and last a good while between sharpenings. I suspect they are at a more acute angle than most people's, from the images I see on here and YouTube, but I honestly can't be bothered to find out. Now that I use a honing guide (after decades sharpening free-hand) I get consistency, but I can't say that the angle is any more "right" now than it was back then.........and I really don't give two hoots.

 

[MikeG.]

.........hour-long scary sharp process some people will try and sell you.

I'm not sure that mis-representing other peoples' methods is a good way of arguing for your own. This is the equivalent of proclaiming that evolution should have produced a crocoduck.

 

[sunnybob]

Wow! its been MONTHS since we had a good sharpening thread.
Must get the biscuit tim out. =D> =D> =D>
Me; I've never had an edge that scares me. does that mean i'm tough? or i have no clue how to sharpen?

Oh, I've just answered my own question, havent I? :roll: :roll:

 

[Tasky]

I'm not sure that mis-representing other peoples' methods is a good way of arguing for your own.

If you're trying to sell me something, with the promise that I can achieve what people have been achieving for many decades just fine without having to buy what you're selling, then you're making my argument for me.
And yes, I have seen the 'secrets' of Scary Sharp™ methods touted as taking "as little as one hour"... but I don't know what the secrets were, as I didn't pay the $49.95 to 'discover' them.

 

[novocaine]

Must get the biscuit tim out. =D> =D> =D>

Who is Tim?
Why has he been put away?
Why does he have all the biscuits?
Why have you reduced his standing to tim rather than Tim or Timothy?

These are the questions we need answering, everything else is about sharpening.
Amendment, what sort of biscuits?

 

[Tasky]

Who is Tim? Why has he been put away? Why does he have all the biscuits? Why have you reduced his standing to tim rather than Tim or Timothy?

*Biscuit Tim is a purveyor of baked food products.
*He ate all the biscuits and got twelve years in the slammer as a result - Rarely does it go well for a dealer who samples his own product, y'see.
*He has all the biscuits, because he's Biscuit Tim.
*He is Tim, because customer surveys indicated that Timothy was too similar to an already established brand of shampoo.

 

[CHJ]

…... This is the equivalent of proclaiming that evolution should have produced a crocoduck.

Without knowing the real reason for evolution.

 

[Jacob]

30º not a "guru's" angle its just an easy angle to guess (one third of a right angle)
Hone at a guessed 30º can be speeded up by grinding at a bit less, say 25 if you want to put a number on it.
If you are honing at 25 and grind at say 20 then it'll take noticeably longer.

why makers send out a 25˚ blade to be sharpened, polished ...

so it just needs a very quick hone for a very sharp edge, at a slightly steeper angle (say 30º) and you are off. Polishing not necessary - taking off the burr with the face flat on the stone is all the polishing you need.

 

[sunnybob]

I dont know his full name. I just used to dial him on my old bakelite phone and he would tell me its biscuit time. havent heard from him for a while though, maybe he went away for a time out.

 

[MikeG.]

.........Amendment, what sort of biscuits?

Unless they're Grantham Gingerbreads, I'm simply not interested. There is no other biscuit that can compare. Indeed, it is the only sensible biscuit to consider. Every other biscuit is inferior in every way. I've been eating Grantham Gingerbreads for 30 years, and whilst you may think your Hob Nobs are OK, I know better than that. I used to eat Hob Nobs, but once I discovered Grantham Gingerbreads, these was no going back. I'm going to dig out my microscopy photos of the two to show you the difference. Yeah, OK, you can eat a Hob Nob quicker than you can eat a Grantham Gingerbread but the quality of the experience is incomparable. And did you know that Hob Nobs include recycled shoe rubber in them? No? You really should know that before you eat them again. OK, it doesn't include that in the Ingredients list, but a friend of my mum's hair-dresser read it somewhere, so it's definitely true. It isn't possible to eat Hob Nobs unless you eat if off a Spode plate (the green ones, of course), and they're not dishwasher proof, so the plate will have microbes all over it. You are thus certain to be risking your life to eat some second rate biscuit, when Grantham Gingerbreads are automatically sterile. And of course, they have a flat base, whereas a Hob Nob is made of such coarse material that flatness is just an alien concept.

That's about it in a nutshell, isn't it?

 

[memzey]

What kind of nut?

 

[lurker]

I never measure mine. I don't actually know what angle they are. They're very sharp, square (chisels, that is), and last a good while between sharpenings. I suspect they are at a more acute angle than most people's, from the images I see on here and YouTube, but I honestly can't be bothered to find out. Now that I use a honing guide (after decades sharpening free-hand) I get consistency, but I can't say that the angle is any more "right" now than it was back then.........and I really don't give two hoots.

Could not have put it better, my thoughts exactly.

 

[lurker]

Blimey Jacob you are slipping up; a sharpening thread and it took you nearly 2 hours to stick your oar in. 8)

 

[Jacob]

Blimey Jacob you are slipping up; a sharpening thread and it took you nearly 2 hours to stick your oar in. 8)

I know I know! So much to do and so little time!

 

[nabs]

Unless they're Grantham Gingerbreads, I'm simply not interested. There is no other biscuit that can compare.

normally I would avoid commenting on a sharpening thread, but this comment is utter nonsense. Hobnobs are over rated too. Anyone who can't make do with a (dark) chocolate digestive has taken leave of their senses.

 

[MikeG.]

Chocolate! On a digestive?! Away to the flogging tree with this scoundrel, and don't spare the lashes.

 

[novocaine]

Well I'm glad that biscuit tin of worms was opened.

Sorry for the derailment Sam. sharpen however you wish, they are your chisels, if it works, it works, if it's cheap, even better.

now back to biscuits, thanks for clearing up who Tim is, my dealers name isn't Tim, it's Morris, so was his father for that matter. does a decent enough Garibaldi but his ginger biscuits aren't great, sure they can stand up to a splash of life water, but they just don't have that bite you want.

hob nobs are for amateurs, any decent biscuit advocate knows they are only eaten till you get the hang of it, then you move away from them to the more professional biscuits. Imagine a new biccer going straight to the granthams, he'd struggle with the complex flavors and simply hasn't got the muscle memory to dung it correctly, he'd end up ruining it all and most likely give up.