Reverse dovetail planes

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Jelly

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Does there exist a plane designed for cutting the 'pin' side of a sliding dovetail?

I know traditionally one cuts one using a tenon or carcase saw, router plane and chisel; but whilst pondering sliding dovetails today I started to realise that whilst complicated, and essentially redundant thanks to powered routers, such a plane is in fact possible, which lead me to wonder if one already existed.

I will post a rough sketch of my 'brainwave' in a bit for those more knowledgeable in plane manufacture to criticise and improve on and/or determine unworkable.
 
They do exist. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.
However, the few times I have made sliding dovetails I have just used a chisel - so not an essential tool!
 
I believe EC Emmerich used to do one and still have dovetail planes in their catalogue on page 11:

http://www.ecemmerich.com/images/ece_ca ... nglish.pdf

was just reading it 10 mins ago :shock: :!:

Quote - Dovetail or Skewed Moving Fillister Plane
with hornbeam sole
Plane has adjustable fence and knife spur to slice cross grain fibers. Spur is in line with and in front
of the blade. Especially suited for moulding sloped surfaces, panel raising, and trimming male
sliding dovetails.
 
PlumberPete, looks like that plane is meant to cut the tail part to me, the part (for instance on the end of a shelf or drawer divider) that would slide into the pin (the carcass side in these examples)

I have cut out the pin section before with saws and a guide block, but it was a pain.

I think if you want to plane it people use a dado plane to sink a square housing then use a side rebate plane with an angled fence on the side to undercut the sides of the housing. HNT Gordon makes a lustful example of such a plane with the angled fence as can be seen here
 
If a surfeit of cash is clogging up your bank account then Bridge City Tools have a sliding tapered dovetail joint plane.
 
JZ6T9n6.jpg


Thats the sketch* of what I was thinking of, an off kilter chisel plane attached to a guide block which it can slide up and down on via two slots; with the block also able to ride against a guide batten.

One would need to make two passes in opposite directions (or with a matched pair to avoid working against the grain, for a joint which isn't cross grained) and still end up cleaning out the bottom with a router plane.

In principle using an off kilter rebate plane with a nicker on each edge would far superior to a chisel plane apart from the fact that the major use of sliding dovetails is in carcase work where a stopped joint is strongly preferable for æsthetic reasons, sharpening and relieving the very corners of the iron as well as the primary bevel, would hopefully suffice though.

So, Opinions?

*Ok, so its actually a 1:1 first angle orthographic projection, not a sketch and is perhaps a little confusing to those who are unfamiliar with technical drawings; but I'm buggered if I could have even roughly sketched that in any of the axonometric projections, let alone in a way that would convey how it's meant to work.
 
Jelly":qy8qznfo said:
Does there exist a plane designed for cutting the 'pin' side of a sliding dovetail?

I know traditionally one cuts one using a tenon or carcase saw, router plane and chisel; but whilst pondering sliding dovetails today I started to realise that whilst complicated, and essentially redundant thanks to powered routers, such a plane is in fact possible, which lead me to wonder if one already existed.

I will post a rough sketch of my 'brainwave' in a bit for those more knowledgeable in plane manufacture to criticise and improve on and/or determine unworkable.

Hi Jelly

You really should read my posts and website! :) I have designed and built a number of these planes. All work.

The latest - and simplest - is a modification to a Stanley #79 side rebate plane, and this will cut both the male and the female joint for a sliding dovetail ...

SlidingDovetails-LC_html_a837b5a.jpg


SlidingDovetails-LC_html_m6e04e7ad.jpg


This is from my Lingerie Chest build (which uses sliding dovetails throughout) ..

SlidingDovetails-LC_html_mac3af84.jpg


For the female side it is always best to saw the angle and remove the waste with a router plane or chisel. The plane can be used on the side of the dado to create the dovetail ...

SlidingDovetails-LC_html_3e8cebeb.jpg


For a demo go here: http://inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Slid ... ls-LC.html

Other planes are at ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... lane2.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... etail.html

The plane above directly cuts the female dovetail along a batten ..

PlaningTheSlidingDovetail_html_m78070689.jpg


EvolvingADovetailPlane2_html_2add1ab6.jpg


You can even cut sliding dovetails with the Veritas Small Plow ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... lPlow.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
I made a stepladder a few years ago, from some old floorboards. It was a quick job and I wasn't too concerned about making it look pretty so I chose to do some experiments in construction.
I cut all the housings for the treads with a wooden dado/housing plane, ie cutting them square, to a pre-set depth.
I then held a wooden side rebate plane at what felt like a suitable angle and made the same number of strokes along either side of each housing. (It was probably only two or three strokes each side.)
To make the matching tail-shaped ends on the treads I knifed a line across at the right distance from each end and planed down with an old wooden rebate plane which a previous owner had modified to have an angled base.

This all worked fine, and the step ladder is still in use.

That said, it was in softwood, so there was more margin for error and indeed I wanted some crushing of the fibres to make tight joints. This was not a display piece in hard brittle exotic wood, but it is an example of the method described by Billiphuster.

However, if you want a commercially made plane to cut both sides of a dovetail joint, there are two historic commercially made options.

The best known is probably the Stanley 444, which is well known for being rare, expensive and seldom showing any sign of actual use.

But as this is UKW, let's hear it for the Howkins Plane, a short-lived and obscure offering which popped up briefly in the 1930s. These pictures are from the original instruction leaflet, showing how it too could be used to cut both sections of a sliding dovetailed joint.

This picture shows one of the planes and the range of work it could do

9b8d17e0-a765-4fba-ac29-5ad449782663_zpssm5dlqct.jpg


and this one shows the set up for dovetailing

84c2636f-1270-401a-8d18-a3374dbb2b51_zpsmboc1ckc.jpg


Another point to bear in mind is that the use of the long sliding dovetail seems to have been better established in Germany than in Britain, so there are more specialised tools available there. For anyone wanting to read more, or review how ingenious makers of times past solved the problems of planing dovetails, I recommend TATHS Journal No 2 which contains a pair of interesting and well researched articles on the subject. You can download it as a pdf from this page: http://www.taths.org.uk/tools-and-trades/downloads.
 
Jelly":348papy4 said:
"essentially redundant thanks to powered routers"

Oh dear! I have realised my latest purchase is redundant, because I could do the job with my router. #-o

Never mind. I will have some non-redundant fun, cutting tongue and groove joints by hand plane;
Much safer for short lengths, than a hand-held router. (I don't use a router table)

It's okay Jelly, I know what you meant! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
custard":23ekl21h said:
If a surfeit of cash is clogging up your bank account then Bridge City Tools have a sliding tapered dovetail joint plane.

=D> Custard, you rarely fail to make me chuckle! =D>

I couldn't find anything on the site, but I suppose it would be a luxury. Especially as I used to cut 'sliding dovetails' by accident when I was rebating! :mrgreen:


John
 
Bridge City do seem to fit into the place briefly occupied by Howkins - their planes look impractically complicated, need special cutters, and a range of extra guides to work. The selling point is versatility to make cuts rarely if ever needed in actual woodworking. I wonder if their designers are aware of Howkins?
 

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