Really simple but (possible) stupid question?

[matt scarlett]

which glue or attaching process is best for attaching metal to wood? I guess i'm looking for gluing processes rather than attaching metal to wood by screwing it in.

 

[Wuffles]

which glue or attaching process is best for attaching metal to wood? I guess i'm looking for gluing processes rather than attaching metal to wood by screwing it in.

Epoxy, or perhaps a PU (like Gorilla glue for example).

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Epoxy.

 

[matt scarlett]

Thanks. I'm just trying to get my head around something like this

 

[Wuffles]

That might not actually be stuck together you know, some precision engineering there

Epoxy and a steady hand for that kind of thing, PU for wood & metal butchery.

 

[matt scarlett]

That might not actually be stuck together you know, some precision engineering there

Epoxy and a steady hand for that kind of thing, PU for wood & metal butchery.

I assume there's more to these Sonus Faber speakers than they're letting on. There are a lot of factory tour pictures, but it's just doing some reverse engineering. But thanks for the heads up. It the kind of help/comments i need.

 

[Wuffles]

That might not actually be stuck together you know, some precision engineering there

Epoxy and a steady hand for that kind of thing, PU for wood & metal butchery.

I assume there's more to these Sonus Faber speakers than they're letting on. There are a lot of factory tour pictures, but it's just doing some reverse engineering. But thanks for the heads up. It the kind of help/comments i need.

I bet someone on here has made some decent speakers before now, start a thread asking about speakers and see what comes up. I think there's a science to it and what you see there is a thin veneer of "nice" wrapped around a bucket load of speakery physics. As you can tell from my lingo, I'm no expert.

 

[matt scarlett]

The enclosure design side and acoustic side of it, i've got covered https://transmissionlinedesigns.wordpress.com/
It's just finishing touches or adding such things like a bit of bright-work to add another dimension

 

[deema]

I think you will find that the laminates are attached by them sitting in grooves stamped / cast into the metal parts. The metal parts form the structure of the enclosure and the laminates are just for decoration.

 

[n0legs]

Could also be double sided tape.
The cushion variety will allow a little movement for the wooden parts.

 

[adidat]

I would also suggest that trying to achieve a result such as this brand you are keen on would be difficult as a one man band, companies like this have millions to spend on setting up factories to produce results like this, not saying its impossible but your may need to cut your cloth accordingly. looking inlaying brass strips or shapes.

adidat

 

[matt scarlett]

I think you will find that the laminates are attached by them sitting in grooves stamped / cast into the metal parts. The metal parts form the structure of the enclosure and the laminates are just for decoration.

Modular parts that are somehow attached. to the fame of the enclosure. The enclosure in themselves are quite compelx, but nowehere do i see any 'Groves'. Just trying to get my head around this design.

Bottom base

Top Plate

This is the top of the enclosure, on which the top chrome plate sits. There does seem to be some grove or predrilled holes.

 

[Eric The Viking]

This caused a bit of sniggering and opening of popcorn in the cheap seats at the back (some of us have a bit of experience with loudspeakers, and others (not me) designed them professionally in years past).

The DS tape thing might be very good. Recently I've been refurbishing our uPVC windows (I know!), including sticking back the faux glazing bars on the outside. There is a special tape for this, which I bought (hugely expensive in small quantities) from http://www.ukindustrialtapes.co.uk/. Their service was very good however, and the stuff sticks like goodness knows what, i.e. really well. It's two ribbons of DS tape with a foam middle, and you can get it in varying widths and thicknesses (1mm, 1.6mm and 2mm being common). There's also a version with a very thin protective film over the sticky, so you can position everything and then tease out the barrier layer from between tape and surface. I got the cheaper stuff with waxed paper, and it worked OK, taking great care.

The bond is far stronger than I expected, and would be ideal in this context. You'd need to seal the wood with something like 2-part poly first though. One big advantage is that you could prise the metal bits off again if necessary. It will tear the foam apart, but the tape residue can be removed with this, which seems to be mainly acetone.

You probably realise that you need to be VERY careful about metal-to-wood contact points in this context. Modern cabs use wall resonances as part of the acoustic design much more than older ones (which typically 'assumed' rigidity), especially the blown plastic ones (e.g. a lot of small PA/stage monitor speaker designs and JBL's smaller ones). If you're copying/adapting something recent, beware of causing buzzes where ply touches metal. I'd be inclined to power them before finishing and fixing any trim, and run them quite hard, listening for problems. You'll then know where you need to fix securely or otherwise, before committing. I assume you've got an audio oscillator - sending swept sine waves into the things will be a good test, but be careful, as you can damage things with high energy sine waves out of band (above the driver's limits usually).

HTH,

E.

 

[matt scarlett]

Thank you for the tip. I certainly don't want to copy SF, however i guess some people are into pretty decorations for their speakers. I like the design, but just trying to get my head around it. Personally, i'd stick with MDF if i could, but i assume if i'm going to sell a design, that look might not go down well.

It'll be interesting to speak to such professionals if they're here on the forum. I guess i'm an 'Enthusiast' and whilst i don't have any professional qualifications, i hope to be able to hold my own in a conversation. But of course each designer has a reason why they do a certain thing ... followed by 50 comments to the contrary.

As for contact points wood/metal, of course that's another concern. I know many shun metal as a whole (Peter Thomas from PMC for example), but it seems the likes of Genelec, Stenheim and Magico in particular are doing quite well with them.

For home audio, it's something that will require some consideration. I'm hoping for what I've got in mind for car audio sub enclosures, that it shouldn't be too much of a distracting factor, but i'll have to factor it in all the same.

but again, that link to the tape is a great help. My knowledge of tape extends to 3M and that's about it. http://www.ukindustrialtapes.co.uk/


I'll let you laugh at this - post1049335.html#p1049335

 

[xy mosian]

Hi, I spent more than a decade in the Acoustics Lab, Loudspeaker design really, of a well known, and in some areas respected manufacturer of HI-Fi loudspeakers.
My work included the testing of both speakers we were developing, units and systems, and some of those of other makers. The upkeep of the test gear was included in that.
Later I moved on to Tweeter design with Horn, sorry wave guide, loading, and latterly the development of a very nice flat field unit. I would say that wouldn't I?

I see from the link, https://transmissionlinedesigns.wordpress.com/, that the site author recommends design by listening. There is nothing wrong with that, to my mind, plenty of reasonable loudspeakers have been designed that way.
Audible testing is quite possible using a Pink Noise signal and in looking for a link to such a signal I came across this site http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_pinknoise.php. A good place to lose any amount of time, for me at least.
I would recommend that you download a pink noise recording and then get used to listening to it. Play it on all your reproduction equipment, bearing in mind that everything between the file on the server and your ears may change the sound.
Play, sorry experiment, with the graphic equalizer of your PC audio player to get used to hearing the effects of louder, or quieter, frequency ranges. Then listen to your newly developed system how is the overall balance? Are there any bands of frequency missing? This last test is perhaps best done with one speaker, it saves building two anyway. Then, for car speakers, listen again in the car.
I should say that I know little about car systems other than the fact that most around here only have a one note Bass.

Last thing - Go For IT
Hope this helps,
xy

 

[matt scarlett]

Hi, I spent more than a decade in the Acoustics Lab, Loudspeaker design really, of a well known, and in some areas respected manufacturer of HI-Fi loudspeakers.
My work included the testing of both speakers we were developing, units and systems, and some of those of other makers. The upkeep of the test gear was included in that.
Later I moved on to Tweeter design with Horn, sorry wave guide, loading, and latterly the development of a very nice flat field unit. I would say that wouldn't I?

I see from the link, https://transmissionlinedesigns.wordpress.com/, that the site author recommends design by listening. There is nothing wrong with that, to my mind, plenty of reasonable loudspeakers have been designed that way.
Audible testing is quite possible using a Pink Noise signal and in looking for a link to such a signal I came across this site http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_pinknoise.php. A good place to lose any amount of time, for me at least.
I would recommend that you download a pink noise recording and then get used to listening to it. Play it on all your reproduction equipment, bearing in mind that everything between the file on the server and your ears may change the sound.
Play, sorry experiment, with the graphic equalizer of your PC audio player to get used to hearing the effects of louder, or quieter, frequency ranges. Then listen to your newly developed system how is the overall balance? Are there any bands of frequency missing? This last test is perhaps best done with one speaker, it saves building two anyway. Then, for car speakers, listen again in the car.
I should say that I know little about car systems other than the fact that most around here only have a one note Bass.

Last thing - Go For IT
Hope this helps,
xy

https://transmissionlinedesigns.wordpre ... isclaimer/

The site author is me, and to make a small correction to your comment, nowhere in the article do i advocate design by listening! (https://transmissionlinedesigns.wordpre ... surements/) What i'm trying to get across is that at some point we have to put the measuring equipment away, and our ears take over. One builds speakers to listen to, and no=one has an inbuilt measuring device for listening. We do it by subjective listening devices.

It has been my experience of nearly 3 decades of exposure to a vast number of audio products (as most of us have), that regardless of such engineering endeavors, I have experienced;

– Good and bad products at all price levels. Under the category of bad, I also Include aspects such as build quality.

– Good and bad (to my ears) sealed or open (ported, bandpass, transmission line etc) enclosure designs

– I have been impressed by some, and very unimpressed by other audio products that have displayed the idyllic graph responses, quoted specifications or T/S (Thiele/Small) parameters.

– Mostly unimpressed by published Hi-Fi magazines ‘5 Star’ recommendations.

For every theory and aspect of design, you'll get a design that will ignore such a theory and still sound impressive to the ear. Diffraction for example, opposing driver to help with cabinet resonances, for another example. although i haven't worked in the design field professionally, i have some some installation work,. The last i semi-helped with was a near £300k McIntosh based system. We swapped some of the Kimber cables (near £16k worth if my memory serves right) for a set up of around £200-300. Could the customer tell the difference? No!

 

[matt scarlett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRM5LB5rvCc

 

[Wuffles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRM5LB5rvCc

Video is private.

 

[matt scarlett]

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/choices.htm

I'd say knowledge is a serious hindrance for objective evaluation. If we had to pick our speaker from behind a black curtain we might pick something we seriously never would have done if we knew what it was.

If I really had to help you picking the right speaker for you and your room, I would have to know you personally, your spouse, your room, your equipment, your musical taste, how loud you play, etc. And even then you might think my suggestion wasn't exactly what you had in mind.
And please remember: What I hear is not what you will hear - and describing sound just doesn't make much sense. So -

Please do not ask what to build!

And please do not ask if any speaker driver is value for money or how they compare. For some people a cheap well implemented driver may do just as well as any high-end driver costing 4-5 times as much. Producing a 6" speaker driver can be done for less than 10 USD and in many ways do as well as a driver costing ten times as much. The suggested increase in performance of high-priced may be well justified but to some ears it just doesn't matter.

 

[matt scarlett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRM5LB5rvCc

Video is private.

be with you in a few minutes