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Problem Oak

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srt

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Hi, i ran this oak through my planer and then tapered them on my table saw.I then wanted to finish the taper with the hand plane and it leaves these horrible holes in it i have not seen the grain in oak lik this before it seems a very close grain with very dark lines running through it also has anyone experienced this before, its a bit frustrating preparing it for it to be like this!?? #-o
 

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Pete Maddex

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Hi,

I would use a scraper plane to finish that, you can see the waves in the grain in the third picture causing the all your problems.
A very sharp finely set smoother will work, or sanding but I hate sanding.

Pete
 

woodbloke

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I'd hazard a guess and say that it's kiln dried American White Oak?..in which case I'm not surprised it's tearing like that. As others have said, a cabinet scraper of some sort is the only way to finish it. If it is AWO, next time try air dried English...the difference is mind boggling and once you've tried it, you'll never use kd AWO again - Rob
 

Midnight

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Donno the specific species you're dealing with but I've encountered identical "features" in some locally harvested oak. Resolved with #6 and #4 1/2, both with hi angle frogs and very tight mouths, extremely fine set blade and experementing with direction of the stroke. It needs patience, but the payback is some spectacular grain in the end...
 

srt

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cheers for replying guys would i need a scraper plane or just a scraper?
Rob i bought this nearly a year ago and i think your spot on with it being kiln dried AWO it is BL***Y awful to work with to put it mildly!!! i wont be rushing back for this stuff.I tried my plane on it and its so hard it nearly bounces off it :x
 

Waka

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woodbloke":1xctex9b said:
I'd hazard a guess and say that it's kiln dried American White Oak?..in which case I'm not surprised it's tearing like that. As others have said, a cabinet scraper of some sort is the only way to finish it. If it is AWO, next time try air dried English...the difference is mind boggling and once you've tried it, you'll never use kd AWO again - Rob
I've been using kiln dried AWO for about 10 years and never come across anything like you've experienced with yours.
I've never used English oak, but I have a couple of arched door projects in the pipeline, so it will be interested to see the difference.
 

srt

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Waka":3gzs3oxi said:
woodbloke":3gzs3oxi said:
I'd hazard a guess and say that it's kiln dried American White Oak?..in which case I'm not surprised it's tearing like that. As others have said, a cabinet scraper of some sort is the only way to finish it. If it is AWO, next time try air dried English...the difference is mind boggling and once you've tried it, you'll never use kd AWO again - Rob
I've been using kiln dried AWO for about 10 years and never come across anything like you've experienced with yours.
I've never used English oak, but I have a couple of arched door projects in the pipeline, so it will be interested to see the difference.
Its not very good to work with at all but is maybe my inexperience,having said that i have worked with oak before but none being this hard or with a strange grain.
 

Dodge

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The colouration and streaking in the oak is much more akin to English Oak and I have experienced this several times over the years - the darker streaking often indicates an alternating, interlocking or twisted grain more like you would expect to see in Sapele.

Unfortunately it can be very difficult to deal with, but as others have said either a scraper plane or very sharp BU low angle block is my favoured way.
 

Paul Chapman

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srt":1drx4x4o said:
would i need a scraper plane or just a scraper?
Any sort of scraper would work in terms of dealing with the tear out, but a #80 style scraper or a scraper plane would be better than a card scraper in helping you to keep the surface flat.

If you don't have a scraper plane, you could try an ordinary plane with the blade honed with a higher effective pitch. Either hone a steeper angle on a bevel-up plane or a back bevel on a bevel-down plane.

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 

woodbloke

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Waka":2t2g8ro0 said:
woodbloke":2t2g8ro0 said:
I'd hazard a guess and say that it's kiln dried American White Oak?..in which case I'm not surprised it's tearing like that. As others have said, a cabinet scraper of some sort is the only way to finish it. If it is AWO, next time try air dried English...the difference is mind boggling and once you've tried it, you'll never use kd AWO again - Rob
I've been using kiln dried AWO for about 10 years and never come across anything like you've experienced with yours.
I've never used English oak, but I have a couple of arched door projects in the pipeline, so it will be interested to see the difference.
Tony, I know you're a big fan of AWO, but if you try a small project in decent quality air dried English, you'll see and feel the difference when you use hand tools...it's 'night & day' - Rob
 

Karl

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I've had this problem too. As others have said, a scraper plane or bench plane with high EP will deal with it, albeit taking some time.

I did a little test on a bench plane recently - see here.

I'd also echo Rob's comments regarding air dried oak - i've been working with a bit recently and it is great stuff to plane, not feeling as "brittle" (if that's the right word i'm looking for) as AWO sometimes can.

Cheers

Karl
 

Waka

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woodbloke":1wophqru said:
Waka":1wophqru said:
woodbloke":1wophqru said:
I'd hazard a guess and say that it's kiln dried American White Oak?..in which case I'm not surprised it's tearing like that. As others have said, a cabinet scraper of some sort is the only way to finish it. If it is AWO, next time try air dried English...the difference is mind boggling and once you've tried it, you'll never use kd AWO again - Rob
I've been using kiln dried AWO for about 10 years and never come across anything like you've experienced with yours.
I've never used English oak, but I have a couple of arched door projects in the pipeline, so it will be interested to see the difference.
Tony, I know you're a big fan of AWO, but if you try a small project in decent quality air dried English, you'll see and feel the difference when you use hand tools...it's 'night & day' - Rob
Rob

I'm looking forward to working with it, maybe I'll be a convert after all these years. See you next week.
 

Harbo

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I've worked with both. The AWO came from the same source as some of Waka's (as he kindly delivered it).
No problem with it at all so perhaps we got some good stuff? :)

Rod
 

Argus

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As an alternative first approach to scrapers, may I suggest half pitch planes?

I have a stock of European (probably French) Oak that I’m using at the moment. One thing that I have encountered is the risk of tear out patterns similar to the OP’s

It was quarter sawn and apart from the occasional ancient lead bullet, has a pleasing set of rays but wild interlocking grain pattern. I guess that’s why it cost extra. Anyway, it's pretty good stuff but can be a pain to plane cleanly.

Whilst a scraper is effective, I also have a graduated set of wooden planes at half-pitch (60 degrees) that are very effective when set to give the thinnest shaving.

This is what I tend to use when dealing with areas that have torn out because it can take a more aggressive cut than a scraper and still leave the surface intact to follow up with a scraper if needed.

This is what works for me.

.
 

Benchwayze

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I have come across this in English Oak. I resolved it with a Stanley, spokeshave-scraper plane. It was hard work, but as has been said, the grain was nice; very nice. :)
 

srt

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How would a template with a bearing guided router finish this type of grain?
 
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