Price of the new Veritas Small Bevel-Up Smoothing Plane!!!!

[clk230]

i just measured the width of the M&S and its 0.0000000000000001 mm less than the width of Andrex , were will this end .

 

[condeesteso]

I agree clk:
"the sole objective of every person/company in the supply chain is to make the maximum they can out of any given product"
This is correct, and there is one cake to slice, which is the net retail less all costs. And the separate parts in the supply chain compete against each other to get the biggest slice they can. Hence distributor and retailer are both fighting for the biggest slice... conflict. And the distributor is trying to get the product into all the competitor retailers.
As for business experience, quite a lot but I'm not here to publish my cv. But just one example as it is quite relevant to this.
Quite a while ago I worked at HMV Retail (back when it was No1 music retailer in the UK, and I had nothing at all to do with it's current woes :lol: ).
At the time HMV was owned by Thorn EMI, and EMI was one of 5 major record labels.
Once a year we had to go through trading term negotiations with all 5, and the other 4 always accused HMV of treating EMI better, or receiving favourable terms etc.
I was the one who had to put the arguments to the other 4 (Polygram, BMG, CBS/Sony and Warners) that the relationship with EMI was exactly the same as the other 4.
Did they actually buy the arguments... probably not, I'd say they tolerated them as HMV was too big to push around. Did I buy the arguments - course not (hammer)

So clk... don't ask personal questions, well structured logic backed with knowledge should be enough.

 

[clk230]

Douglas , its an open forum if i choose to ask personal questions i can thank you very much , if anyone chooses not to answer them then fine , i notice you didn't answer my other question.
I confess to know little about the music industry but i'm guessing the trading terms include retail space allocation & yes maybe pricing of competing media (am i right in thinking some records by the same artist may be distrubed by several record labels)so yes i can see a worry over conflicting interests in this situation , but i really don't see any conflict in the Veritas situation.

As long as the retailers are able to earn a standard mark-up (relevant to the industry) , charge the same retail prices as Axminster and are able to pull from the same stock then there are no conflicts .IMO

oscar

 

[Vann]

Vann you also seem to be stocking the fire on a pricing matter that doesn't even affect you as your in NZ .

I'm still entitled to express an opinion in a discussion on the principles of what constitutes reasonable retail margins. While I wouldn't purchase this particular plane from a UK retailer (the extra step in the supply chain makes it less economical to do so), I have purchased some UK manufactured hand tools from the UK. I do have an interest in this discussion.

condeesteco refers to the various parties in the supply chain each fighting for their margin. There's one more player in the line - me and you(*) - and I'm fighting to protect my margin. If I feel that the retailer/wholesaler is trying to get their hands on more than a fair share of my funds, I'll try to avoid them.

* normally referred to as the consumer - but we don't really "consume" things like planes. We either break them, or sell them on e-pay 60 years later (or in some cases break them and sell them on e-pay...) (hammer)

Oh, and isn't it interesting that sometimes it's cheaper to buy two 4-packs of bog rolls than a single 8-pack. You'd have thought that the supply chain would have reduced costs for the single 8-pack. But then it's not really what happens with the supply chain that matters with bog rolls - it's what happens when you pull the other chain...

Cheers, Vann.

 

[clk230]

what a retailer or wholesaler decides to earn out of the customer on non essential iems is upto them and none of our business. IMO

i'm sure if we asked how much 10 different members would charge to make the same item ,we would get a multitude of different answers would the highest price be a rip off , how do we decide a fair price/margin, who are we to tell someone they should only earn £x out of something.

all we can do is vote with our wallets and decide if that item is value to us and that is only something the individual can answer.

 

[Tom K]

what a retailer or wholesaler decides to earn out of the customer on non essential iems is upto them and none of our business. IMO

i'm sure if we asked how much 10 different members would charge to make the same item ,we would get a multitude of different answers would the highest price be a rip off , how do we decide a fair price/margin, who are we to tell someone they should only earn £x out of something.

all we can do is vote with our wallets and decide if that item is value to us and that is only something the individual can answer.

So you spend time reading and posting on an internet discussion forum to promote the view that discussion is pointless?

 

[clk230]

Tom , anything of value to say or are you just trolling

 

[Tom K]

Tom , anything of value to say or are you just trolling

Pretty much what I was asking you Oscar

 

[clk230]

Tom , i made what i would say are valid points ,its an internet forum were you get different opinoins and discussions which ,you seem to have just made some one liners without really discussing , agreeing or disagreeing with anyone.
the OP was about the price of a handplane it took a turn into discussing the wholesaler of such which i have entered into have you ?

 

[Tom K]

Tom , i made what i would say are valid points ,its an internet forum were you get different opinoins and discussions which ,you seem to have just made some one liners without really discussing , agreeing or disagreeing with anyone.
the OP was about the price of a handplane it took a turn into discussing the wholesaler of such which i have entered into have you ?

Sorry Oscar, I thought you were cackling with C.C and talking about bog rolls :roll:
I must have missed your point along the way could you explain in a detailed and concise manner.

 

[studders]

what a retailer or wholesaler decides to earn out of the customer on non essential iems is upto them and none of our business. IMO

None of our Business?? Of course it is, we are the customer, it is plain common sense to research what is a reasonable price to be paying, and that involves what the retailer charges, and thus, earns from a sale.

 

[clk230]

well Studders, we'll have to agree to disagree yes research what you want to pay but when it comes to how much someone is making from your purchase then i'll stand by what i say .

 

[Vann]

what a retailer or wholesaler decides to earn out of the customer on non essential iems is upto them and none of our business. IMO.

That puts someone with a monopoly in a very envious position. They can charge what they like and we have no right to question :!:

As studders points out, we are the customer. We are parting with our hard earned(*) money and have every right to question margins - not that we can necessarily do anything about these margins.

*unless we also have a monopoly and don't particularly earn our income .

Cheers, Vann.

 

[clk230]

As a potential customer you have several decisions to make , do you need/want the item , is the price value to you , can you afford it , what the dealers is making out of you shouldn't come into it we know thier there to make money , you are deciding on wether to purchase an item NOT how much you think a fair profit margin is for the dealer.
The problem is when you question the margins is that you are making assumptions about costs that are probably incorrect .

Monopolies are dangerous but a real monopoly can only really exist in essiantial items , as if you don't actually need the item then its still you the consumer that makes the decision to buy or not to buy.

 

[Tom K]

As a potential customer you have several decisions to make , do you need/want the item , is the price value to you , can you afford it , what the dealers is making out of you shouldn't come into it we know thier there to make money , you are deciding on wether to purchase an item NOT how much you think a fair profit margin is for the dealer.
The problem is when you question the margins is that you are making assumptions about costs that are probably incorrect .

Monopolies are dangerous but a real monopoly can only really exist in essiantial items , as if you don't actually need the item then its still you the consumer that makes the decision to buy or not to buy.

When you question the margins it is to discover if any assumptions you might make are correct or not. It is very much a part of everyday business transactions to question profit margins we all do it. None of us like being ripped off.

 

[clk230]

its about the percieved value of any given item to you ! if an item is say £50 and you believe that tobe its worth to you then does it matter if it cost the dealer £1 or £49

so what in you opinion is a fair profit margin ?

 

[studders]

Exact amounts/margins are not relevant, it is comparative amounts that are important. As in this case we know what the going rate is in the country of origin and others, we can then compare the amount being asked here and decide if it seems fair or not; which was the whole point of the original post.

 

[clk230]

Studders i see exactly were your coming from and its always tricky comparing worldwide prices as you've got different market forces in different countries ,

like anything for sale its upto the individual to decide its value somee may think its a bargain others expensive.

 

[studders]

..... its always tricky comparing worldwide prices as you've got different market forces in different countries ....

That's quite true, and has to be borne in mind, the USA probably has a far greater volume of sales than the UK, and that is going to affect the selling price.
Having said that, if an individual can buy a single unit from overseas and have it shipped back here for significantly less than buying the same item here then, something would appear to be wrong somewhere along the line, and excess profit is usually the main suspect.

 

[Tom K]

its about the percieved value of any given item to you ! if an item is say £50 and you believe that tobe its worth to you then does it matter if it cost the dealer £1 or £49

so what in you opinion is a fair profit margin ?

It was never about the perceived value the entire thread was about the margin.
We don't know how much profit is being made but from what I have been told by my son in law (Manager of a big box store) mark up can be as much as a 1000% on many tools.
I don't suppose for a minute that Veritas planes have that sort of margin but they aren't stocked for kudos and as was stated you can negotiate discounts.