Planes

[steviemac]

Hello, this is my first post so forgive me if I seem ignorant, it's because I am. I've taken up woodwork again, ( I loved it at school 30 years ago ) and have joined a class near home. I have an old plane that has no name although it is a number 4 and the blade is made by Record. It is wider than most number 4 models, the blade being 6cm. I know how to adjust it but the lever & screw etc are all very worn. Would it be worth reviving or should I buy a new plane. I have good chisels, good saws and realise that a good plane is essential.
Reading many of the reviews etc, it seems the adage 'you get what you pay for' is especially true with planes. I quite like the look of the Quangsheng No 62 low angle jack plane. At £129 it's not cheap, but the three blades seem to make it useful. I'd keep a plane like this for best and use my old one for rough work. I've never used a plane like this although I realise it will (hopefully) work like any other plane. If QS are as good as they seem I don't mind paying a bit more. I have a very old wooden plane that shaves lovely thin shavings but is the devil to keep true. Finally, at the class I attend they have a planer/thicknesser which seems to take the donkey work out of sizing the wood. Any suggestions which is best for a shed based set up?
Sorry about the length of the post!

 

[Furtree]

Welcome back to *wood* mate!

As to the Quangsheng, well, if I was just starting out, and didn't have a load of dosh to spare, I wouldn't go for the 'Rolls Royce' of planes. Great craftsman have produced great work without them, using yer more run o'the mill planes... And in saving that dosh, you can then splash out on the many other tools you'll need? How about a decent combination square instead, or... ... (etc, etc)... Loads of old / retired (or deceased!) craftman have got their gear for sale on ebay etc. ~ So many tools today seem to be of such LOW quality, in comparison to (some) of the older stuff, so I think it's worth checking out the sales?

Without seeing a pic of the older plane you mentioned, I can't comment. If it's a piece of junk to begin with (eg: the sole is badly cast and out of true, and if other parts aren't up to the mark, well, forgeddit!
However, if it's a nice bit o'steel and all, then well, -- we always learn new things by taking stuff apart and spending time upgrading...

Planer thicknessers? Well, don't go for the very cheapest, with perhaps poor reputations? (eg: Clarke, or Titan?) -- Worst still might be anything by 'Silverline'! ~ Maybe look at low-end Record, Axminster and machines around that mark...
If yr a bit more loaded, maybe check out Makita gear? (-- others here will doubtless mention their favourites too!)

Lastly, as to your supposed 'ignorance' well, ain't we just ALL ignorant about something? Maybe the worst ignorance comes from the 'perfect' being who thinks s/he knows it all!
I used to teach basic woodwork to 'newbies' (men and women adult learners, as well as kids) and one of the best bits was helping them to overcome their initial lack of confidence, ~ I just love doing that!

(an old crock reminisces) ::
I had a woman who came to join my class one day: she opened the door to the large classroom, filled with adults all beavering away, and was just about to flee in fear, when I (metaphorically!) grabbed her...
I coaxed her back into the room, and asked her to look around; I pointed out that I had about x5 women students in the class who were all, at one time, complete and utter beginners...

She got the point, joined the class, where I helped her with her lack of confidence, and she really enjoyed learning to make stuff!

I just thought I would mention that here, for any other newbies to the 'wunnerful world of wood'!

Lastly, you write: "Sorry about the length of the post!"
--No probs mate! See that old Diston panel saw over there? Well, just grab it and saw a few inches off one end! (( ))

 

[bosshogg]

Steve...hope you don't mind me calling you this...you appear to be answering your own questions, if I may be so bold. One thing, the old wooden plane that you describe as a devil to keep true, in what way do you mean?...bosshogg

No man is an island :wink:

 

[Vann]

Welcome to the forum

I have an old plane that has no name although it is a number 4 and the blade is made by Record. It is wider than most number 4 models, the blade being 6cm. !

Having a 60mm wide blade it may well be a No.4½ not a No.4. With no name it's either cheap (and probably nasty), or a very old Stanley (=good). Cheap No.4s are two a penny, but No.4½s are a bit rarer (and cheap and nasty copies are very rare in my limited experience). So it may be worth spending a bit of time on. Older Record irons are reasonable quality if not pitted beyond redemption.

As to the Quangsheng, well, if I was just starting out, and didn't have a load of dosh to spare, I wouldn't go for the 'Rolls Royce' of planes.

Quangsheng only make it slightly above 'Toyota Corolla' status. For 'Rolls Royce' see Clifton, Veritas or Lie-Nielsen.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[jimi43]

Welcome Steve.

Regarding planes...keep in mind..they are just a holder for a sharp (hopefully) edged bit of metal.

Beyond that...refinements and expensive bits are there to make your life easier in getting that edge where it should be...consistently and quickly.

I am glad that you find your woody plane useable. This is a major start. A lot of "craftsmen" can't get used to wooden planes...some however, love them...check Philly's site!..a long-serving member here and all round genius!

My journey was with rusty hulks from bootfairs, tarted up to work and later...fettled to work really well. They are all a joy to use and I doubt any of the Stanleys/Records I have cost me more than a tenner. The comment from others that tarting these up gives you experience is spot on...you learn how they work...what's good and what's not...and by this learning process...find how to use them to the best effect.

There is also a certain amount of pride in getting something working well that would otherwise be consigned to the scrapheap....and each time you use it, a part of you is in that tool...instead of a part of some anonymous Chinaman. :mrgreen:

Have a search around here for refurbishment...fettling...restore...those key words and you will find a plethora of useful information and perhaps....inspiration.

Good luck mate!

Jim

 

[steviemac]

Thank you one and all for the warm welcome to the forum. I'm on several forums for classic cars and am used to refurbishing stuff. I'll try and post some pics of my old plane and see if anyone can identify it.
Regards, Steve

 

[Peter Sefton]

Welcome to the Forum Steve

I am in the proccess of writing a review of the new Quangsheng 62 after the live 62 bench plane battle that took place last saturday at my open day. I hope to post it very soon just getting photos together.

Cheers Peter

 

[woodbloke]

Welcome to the Forum Steve

I am in the proccess of writing a review of the new Quangsheng 62 after the live 62 bench plane battle that took place last saturday at my open day. I hope to post it very soon just getting photos together.

Cheers Peter

T'weren't a battle Pete, more of a LA BU duel...Matts QS 62 vs my Veritas jack :lol: - Rob

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Steve,

Welcome aboard!

We're all a bit upside down here as the 4-1/2 is usually the plane preserved in immaculately tuned condition for the final shaving. I hit a foreign body in a piece of timber with my 4-1/2 cliffie the other day and haven't quite been able to bring myself to look at the damage yet - special woodworking expletives aplenty!!!

Traditionally the jack on the other hand is normally used for roughing work down to a surface that can be finished with other planes. Low angle Jacks are a bit special though in that they can function very well as a 'super smoother' in David Charlesworth's words.

Even if your 4-1/2 is beyond economic restoration to its intended purpose, it may still be resolvable to the post of 'short fat jack' with a cambered iron for use in preparing timber across the grain. Which would still give you a sensible setup for producing usable components with the minimum outlay.

Ideally a photo of the sole with referance to a straight edge (and/or feeler gauge measurements at the toe, either side of the mouth and heel) would be the best way of establishing its potential.

It is often surprising how much performance can be gleaned back by replacing the cap iron and doing a little work on the sole.

 

[steviemac]

Well thank you all for the information. I took some pictures of the plane this evening so that hopefully it can be identified. Thanks to Vann for pointing out that it's actually a 4 1/2 rather than a four. It is a heavy plane compared to others I've used and although well worn, has the feel of reasonable quality to it, so it may be worth fettling it. All I have to do now is work out how to upload my pictures to this thread!
Steve

 

[steviemac]

OK I give in, how do I post pictures? I tried FAQs but couldn't find anything. Help?

 

[Mike Wingate]

I started with a 4 1/2 and a 6, but learned to love the No.5 when I started teaching. 4's are nice, my No.3 is great for dovetail trimming and inlays. I have 2 reduced length no.5's that are really thick castings, heavy and well balanced that are my favorites. One is equiped with an IBC Cosman combo. I love japanese pull saws and electric routers and tables. The world of woodwork is great. Enjoy it with what you have and can afford.

 

[Richard T]

Welcome Steve

Here is a photo posting thread: pictures-t51212.html

 

[bosshogg]

OK I give in, how do I post pictures? I tried FAQs but couldn't find anything. Help?

You can save your picture to your computer (must be .jpeg) then when you are in the full editor mode,writing a post, and want to insert a pic.go to the top bar, click on Img you will then see this >[Img], move to the under page section named [b]Filename[/b] click on choose file and go to where you have saved the pic you want, having found your pic. file double click on it. Now you have the pic. ready to insert, place your cursor where you want the pic. to go and finding 'place in line' (at the bottom of the composition page) click on it and your pic. is inserted...at least that's how I do it...discuss

Cheers...bosshogg :)

[quote]No man is an island (hammer) [/quote]

 

[Peter Sefton]

Welcome to the Forum Steve

I am in the proccess of writing a review of the new Quangsheng 62 after the live 62 bench plane battle that took place last saturday at my open day. I hope to post it very soon just getting photos together.

Cheers Peter

T'weren't a battle Pete, more of a LA BU duel...Matts QS 62 vs my Veritas jack :lol: - Rob

The shavings showdown is now on the tool reviews page, I hope it helps you guys looking to buy a new 62 plane.

I would like to thank Rob for letting us use his excellent Veritas.

Note (no planes were harmed in the making of this review) :lol:

Cheers Peter

 

[Benchwayze]

Welcome back to the fold, and to the Forum Steve.

Can't add much else really. I recognise too, what the old guys (before even me!) did with tools we might laugh at today. That said, just get the best you can afford, bearing in mind, planes aren't the only thing you'll need.

Best of luck and enjoy the forum.
John

 

[steviemac]

Hello, I thought I'd revive this old thread regarding planes. I do this in the knowledge that there a lot of plane obsessives out there.

If you look at my thread you'll see that I was casting around for a good plane but struggling to justify LN or Clifton prices. Well in the end I bought a Record SS 4 1/2 from ebay. I spent time sharpening the blade which hasn't been used that much as well as flatting the sole on wet & dry on a marble slab. I'm utterly delighted with this plane. It's weighty, and superbly made. Having taken the time to tune it, it performs imeccably.

I bought another SS, this time a 5 1/2 which was in an unloved state but is to be revitalised. I bought a Clifton two piece cap iron to replace thgoing to buy the set e missing Record SS one. I have to say the Record cap iron is better than the Clifton one. I'm now convinced that old tools are just better quality than most new tools.

While I'm on, I have to mention a Marples screwdriver I've just bought. Brand new, I wanted a nice 6" flat blade that I could keep just for woodwork rather than sharing it with my car etc. I was going to buy the set, but didn't. I'm sorry to have to say that for £10.99 it's the worst piece of junk I've seen in years. It's badly finished, in fact unfinished. The blade point is not straight or even, and the flat part in front of the handle is offset from the flat of the point. The steel ferrule is cheap and doesn't look as though it will last 5 minutes. Only the wooden handle was OK. I've seen better for 99p on the market. I was very disappointed and have returned it for a refund. I also emailed Marples to tell them how poor it was. I have several old Marples chisels and they are excellent. It's a shame if this is the quality that Marples now porduce.

 

[jimi43]

Hi Steve

Glad that you are finding the old classics worth sorting out...and you are right...there are very few makers these days taking the care to produce the quality that existed almost uniformly in days gone by.

If you want a decent screwdriver...get an old one from a bootfair...you never know..you may get a beauty like this Holtzapffel....

...for pennies!

The top one of these two may interest you as well....

Beautifully patinated boxwood handle...and by this maker....

I think this is what you mean mate!

Cheers

Jimi

 

[Benchwayze]

Hello, I thought I'd revive this old thread regarding planes. I do this in the knowledge that there a lot of plane obsessives out there.

If you look at my thread you'll see that I was casting around for a good plane but struggling to justify LN or Clifton prices. Well in the end I bought a Record SS 4 1/2 from ebay. I spent time sharpening the blade which hasn't been used that much as well as flatting the sole on wet & dry on a marble slab. I'm utterly delighted with this plane. It's weighty, and superbly made.

I bought another SS, this time a 5 1/2 which was in an unloved state but is to be revitalised. I have to say the Record cap iron is better than the Clifton one. I'm now convinced that old tools are just better quality than most new tools.

Well Steve, you would say that, wouldn't you! :lol:

You discovered old tools... Now you need to make an old style chest!

(But if ever you can afford a Lie Nielsen or Clifton, you have to give them a fair crack of the whip. Unless you find an unused Stanley Bedrock going begging.)

Best of luck.

 

[steviemac]

Thanks chaps, those screwdrivers are lovely, I'll keep an eye out for a Holtzapffel. That Marples is a far cry for the apology I was sold. I do have a few older screwdrivers of this type. I keep them in the toolbox of my Riley RMB 2.5 1949. I'm now looking for some just for wood and nothing else. I like having something to look for, it's good fun. Steve