Planer/Thicknesser not working, electrical problem?

[YorkshireMartin]

Hi all,

I've just taken delivery of an Axminster AW106PT2. It's a 240v model with a 13 amp fuse.

After commissioning the machine I tried to test it. Unfortunately, all I got was a buzzing noise until I pressed the emergency stop. Attempted several times.

I've contacted Axminster tonight so should hear from them tomorrow, but I thought I'd ask here to see if there might be something I've overlooked as I'm far from experienced in this regard.

I've read that in some cases a 16 amp socket can be necessary for these machines. The supply to the garage is standard 13 amp and from what I could see, appears to feed from the Wylex consumer unit which I think has a 20 amp fuse in it. I'm guessing its 20 amp as the cooker circuit is marked B32, which I'm guessing is 32amp and the feed to the garage is marked B20. My electrical experience is virtually non-existent beyond fitting a socket or a light.

The strange thing here is, if it was attempting to draw too much power, I'd expect it to trip the fuse on the garage circuit, which isn't happening. Literally I get a buzzing noise from the motor and nothing else. The lights dim ever so slightly for a fraction of a second when i turn the machine on, too.

As far as I can tell, the machine isn't jammed, although the noise its making would be what I'd expect if it was. I've inspected it carefully and I can hand rotate the blade carrier with some effort, the chains also rotate freely as does the band. Lubrication was applied as per the manual, I used machine oil.

Does this sound like an electrical issue, if so, can I fit a 16 amp socket on a 20 amp circuit? Just sounds a little too close to capacity to me, but I don't know. Already on the circuit I have a freezer and 6 strip lights, plus a dustbuster on charge and a clock/radio. I did try to start the machine with the lights off, which made no difference.

I'm sure Axminster will sort me out one way or another, but I just thought I'd see what you fine folks thought of the situation.

Any ideas?

Many thanks,

Martin

 

[dzj]

Faulty capacitor?

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Faulty capacitor?

I read that thread. It could be, but I've honestly no clue whether that would cause the problems I'm experiencing or not. The guy who reported that issue on here said he got nothing at all from the machine when powered up, whereas at least I have an electrical buzz. Not sure which is worse....lol

 

[RobinBHM]

I would tend to agree, if the starting load is greater than the circuit protection, I would expect the breaker to trip.

I dont know much about braking systems, but generally brakes are on by default and are released as part of the starting sequence -although perhaps that only applies to 3 phase equipment I dont know. Even so if the brake isnt releasing the load would rapidly increase until the circuit trips.

Im guessing this is a new machine, if so I would wait to talk to Axminster, Im sure they will soon identify whether the issue is the machine or your circuit.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

I would tend to agree, if the starting load is greater than the circuit protection, I would expect the breaker to trip.

I dont know much about braking systems, but generally brakes are on by default and are released as part of the starting sequence -although perhaps that only applies to 3 phase equipment I dont know. Even so if the brake isnt releasing the load would rapidly increase until the circuit trips.

Im guessing this is a new machine, if so I would wait to talk to Axminster, Im sure they will soon identify whether the issue is the machine or your circuit.

Thanks Robin.

I'll hopefully speak to them tomorrow. I have no doubt they will sort me out, just thought I'd ask in case it was a situation someone had seen before and perhaps I'd overlooked the obvious. Not a lot is obvious to me at the moment in regard to woodworking, I must admit.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Update on this, relevant to anyone considering one of these units.

Axminster customer service has been good. They sent a new capacitor out yesterday for delivery today. Original capacitor was a 450v 30 uf. New one 250v 200uf. That seemed a bit odd. But anyway....after fitting the new capacitor, the machine worked. For 5 minutes. At which point I began to smell burning and shut everything down. Capacitor had all but exploded.

They are now sending yet another capacitor out but I'm in two minds on what to do now. This machine is the backbone of any woodshop and needs to be reliable.

Short of forking out for a Sedgwick, I'm left with a sea of Chinese clones which I'm suspicious of after this experience. The Jet, at almost twice the price, uses a similar design and I am absolutely not convinced that the reliability or components would be any different, being Chinese made.

Sedgwick PT requires startup current of 56A, and runs on a 25A fuse, so that means electrical work before I can even consider it. Fuse in consumer unit which supplies garage is only 20A and I've no idea what would be necessary to upgrade the supply. Cable is underground too, although we seem to recall it might be rated to 30A, although this is still nowhere near enough for the Sedgwick.

Feeling a bit fed up at this point to say the least.

Open to suggestions :duno:

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[sjalloq]

This all seems very strange. My initial thought after scanning the thread was that the motor might be jammed but given you say you can turn it, then that can't be the reason.

The capacitor they sent you should have been the same size and voltage rating as the original unless it was fitted incorrectly at the factory. From what I've read the start cap is usually over 30uF but I wouldn't expect them to send you one with such a different value. Also, the voltage rating is a little low. I would want some decent headroom over the nominal voltage the machine is going to run at otherwise it will just fail prematurely. Can you also double check that they sent you a non-polarised capacitor - i.e. it shouldn't have had positive and negative terminals. If it did, then if you inserted it the wrong way round that would be an issue. Secondly, if that isn't the reason, then did you hear the centrifugal switch click on after it got up to speed? if the cap wasn't switched out after startup, then it would quickly overheat and burn up. But that would imply multiple failures including the incorrectly sized cap being fitted at the factory. Perhaps make sure that the Axminster guys have the spec in front of them and aren't just iterating to see what works.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

200uF seems about ten times too high and 250V seems too low. http://www.maplin.co.uk/c/components/ca ... PerPage=24

Excess heat in the motor may damage the (was once shellac?) insulation on the copper windings in the motor.

Cheers, W2S

 

[dzj]

Perhaps the motor itself is at fault. Start winding possibly.

You might consider going '3 phase'. The amperage you list is pretty high for single phase installation.

 

[Lons]

There's no reason why you should be swapping out parts yourself on a new clearly faulty machine. It isn't fit for purpose and should be replaced or refunded.
I'm not surprised you've lost confidence in it.

Bob

 

[sjalloq]

Guys, this is a new PT isn't it? It should work out of the box. But yeah, the motor could just be DOA. However, the 200uF looks right for a start cap for a 2HP motor. The run cap should be about 20-30uF so perhaps they just put the wrong one in at the factory. The start cap should be rated at >325V.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Just to clarify, this is the Axminster AW106PT2 that is faulty. The Sedgwick PT is something I'm considering as a replacement.

It's true to say I shouldn't be swapping out capacitors but I elected to. I'm located a long way from Axminster's HQ so it was a quicker solution. The capacitor they sent for the repair wasn't polarised.

The motor can't be jammed as it ran fine for 5 mins, then the burning smell came. Something is clearly wrong but I guess I'll try another capacitor. After that I think I'll have to give up. I didn't hear the switch click on startup but I wasn't listening for it. I think it's a faulty motor but the original capacitor was definitely incorrect, so if that caused the damage, that would explain it.

I have to say for the record, Axminster have been very good in relation to this. However, the quality control is clearly suspect on this machine. This basically should never happen. They have offered a replacement already along with a new capacitor. I'll try a capacitor first but even then, as I say, I'm not sure if I want to keep the machine. A bit like your pride and joy car thats been crashed, just loses the magic somehow.

sjalloq, strange is one word to describe it yes. How we go from a 450v 30uf capacitor to needing a 250v 200uf, is beyond me. I know nothing of electrical engineering, but those numbers seem suspect. Axminster insist that the 200uf capacitor is correct. Would a 3 phase motor require a 450v 30uf cap? That was my first thought when I saw the values on it. That theres been a mixup.

Basically, I've no idea whats going on with this and short of learning how to do diagnostics on it myself, or paying someone, I'm a bit stuck.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Perhaps the motor itself is at fault. Start winding possibly.

You might consider going '3 phase'. The amperage you list is pretty high for single phase installation.

The high amperage was for a single phase Sedwick PT that I'm considering as an alternative to this faulty unit. I thought it sounded high also, but those are the figures they (Sedgwick) publish on their web site.

 

[dzj]

3 phase motors don't need capacitors.