Pile o' rust gloat

[Trizza]

After keeping my eye on ebay for a long time I finally scored some stuff! I picked this up from customs today, winnings via ebay from an estate sale in the US.

9 saws, a Stanley 271 and an Eclipse No 77. Grand total? $40! Of course lob in shipping and it worked out to about $100, but still a decent total I reckon.

I'm measuring and researching each saw now, will post specs of each shortly Quickly though, theres a few there that just need a bit of derusting on the plates and a quick sharpen and they're ready to go - some need significant TLC! Should be a great learning exercise.

Close-up of the 271, it seems to be in excellent shape:

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Nice haul!

That 271 looks like its made of brass, if it is it will be a pattern one made using a Stanley 271 to make a mould, lots of pattern makers had tool copied. If you where working a foundry why not!


Pete

 

[Alf]

Ooo, you're going to be really, really good at rehabbing saws by the time you've got through that lot. :lol: Nice pile o' rust.

 

[Trizza]

After some research, this is what it looks like I've scored:

Disston D-8 - skewback 22", ~8.5PPI cross-cut. Pretty decent condition, bit curved. Medallion says "Disston Phila" so I guess sometime between 1917 & 1940.

Disston D-8 - skewback 22", 12PPI cross-cut. Excellent condition - sawplate just needs a light scrub with steel wool and teeth a sharpen and it'll be a great saw. Etch is faint but visible, medallion reads "H Disston & sons Philada", so 1896-1917.

Disston D-15 or D-23 - straightback 26", ~7PPI cross-cut. Kinked near the tip. Medallion reads "Disston USA" and is nickel with a brass center. Nickel plated screws.

"Warranted superior" - skewback ~24.5", ~5.5 PPI rip. Very good condition and sharp - took this one straight out and ripped some pine with it. Sawplate needs a good clean, but it seems to be a great user.

"Warranted superior" - straightback ~26.5" with nib, 10PPI cross-cut. It has about 6.5" of plate depth measured in front of the handle - looks like a very nice saw.

Harvey Peace, straightback ~26.5" with snapped nib, ~7.5PPI cross-cut. Front toe corner of the plate is snapped off, and needs the teeth completely re-cut. There is 6.8" of plate left though so plenty of space to retooth. Medallion reads "Harvey W Peace Brooklyn NY"

"??"- straightback 26", ~7.5PPI cross-cut. This one has a big kink and a crack in the plate about 8" from the tip. No identifying marks that I could see, but the handle is reinforced with a metal plate on both sides.

"??" - skewback 26", ~6.5PPI rip. This one has evidently been in the wars - the sawplate is down to 5.1" at the handle and 1.4" at the tip, the medallion and all but two nuts are missing, blade has two kinks in it and evidently the entire thing has been dipped in paint at some point. The chipcarved handle looks a lot like a Disston to me.

Spear & Jackson - straightback 26" with nib, 5.5PPI cross-cut. The plate has a gradual curve to it and a small kink & crack in the toothline towards the tip. about 6.7" of plate depth left. Handle is in terrible condition, and rather club-like.

Edit: Here's the group shot, labelled!

 

[Trizza]

Some more pictures of the goodies:

Medallion on the D-15/D-23, I haven't seen a picture of a two-tone one like this elsewhere yet:

Medallion on the big "warranted superior", I can make out "Pat - ? C. 1??9" just under the Warranted text:

The paint dipped mystery saw's wartorn handle:

Shorter "warranted superior" saw's medallion:

The handle of the mystery saw with the metal reinforcement:

The big crack in the reinforced handled saw's plate:

A sample of just some of the abuse inflicted on the Spear & Jackson's handle. I count 2 nails and 2 screws all helping to hold this club together:

The smaller crack in the Spear & Jackson's plate:

 

[Trizza]

That 271 looks like its made of brass, if it is it will be a pattern one made using a Stanley 271 to make a mould, lots of pattern makers had tool copied. If you where working a foundry why not!

I think you're right Pete - it sure is a nice copy if so, though! The fit & finish is superb.

Ooo, you're going to be really, really good at rehabbing saws by the time you've got through that lot. :lol: Nice pile o' rust.

I hope so! I've sure got my work cut out for me this week


So - opinions wanted! Which saws should I leave alone (apart from a quick clean and resharpen), which whould I toss, and which should I go nuts on? I'm in need of a big coarse ripper so I'd like to rehab + retooth one of the 26" saws to a more coarse setting.

For more experienced rehabbers out ther: how fatal is a crack in the toothline? With the Spear & Jackson I think I can just joint the teeth completely off and retooth so that the crack gets wasted away, but what about the saw with the bigger crack? Should I just lop the end off and retooth it for use as a panel saw?

Biggest problem: where to start! So many saws to choose from...

 

[dannykaye]

Hi,

Nice haul!

That 271 looks like its made of brass, if it is it will be a pattern one made using a Stanley 271 to make a mould, lots of pattern makers had tool copied. If you where working a foundry why not!


Pete

I have a stanley 45 done like that, even the wooden handles are brass

 

[Alf]

Right, opinions eh? Always easier when you can hold the thing in your hand, but fwiw:

Disston D-8 - skewback 22", ~8.5PPI cross-cut. Pretty decent condition, bit curved. Medallion says "Disston Phila" so I guess sometime between 1917 & 1940.

Worth the effort - you may well be able to encourage it to curve back again.

Disston D-8 - skewback 22", 12PPI cross-cut. Excellent condition - sawplate just needs a light scrub with steel wool and teeth a sharpen and it'll be a great saw. Etch is faint but visible, medallion reads "H Disston & sons Philada", so 1896-1917.

I suspect you know exactly what to do with this one. Yep, send it to me at Alf Towers, Cornwall, TR... No? Oh well, worth a shot...

Disston D-15 or D-23 - straightback 26", ~7PPI cross-cut. Kinked near the tip. Medallion reads "Disston USA" and is nickel with a brass center. Nickel plated screws.

Hmm, a later model methinks. Handle's a bit clunky. Wouldn't hesitate to do what you like with it, if it was me. Cut off the kink if you fancy, reshape the handle, make a new handle, turn the whole thing into a different saw. Unless it turns out the two-tone medallion is madly rare and valuable, in which case sell it.

"Warranted superior" - skewback ~24.5", ~5.5 PPI rip. Very good condition and sharp - took this one straight out and ripped some pine with it. Sawplate needs a good clean, but it seems to be a great user.

That one seems sorted then.

"Warranted superior" - straightback ~26.5" with nib, 10PPI cross-cut. It has about 6.5" of plate depth measured in front of the handle - looks like a very nice saw.

It does indeed look like a nice saw. Well worth getting back into shape.

Harvey Peace, straightback ~26.5" with snapped nib, ~7.5PPI cross-cut. Front toe corner of the plate is snapped off, and needs the teeth completely re-cut. There is 6.8" of plate left though so plenty of space to retooth. Medallion reads "Harvey W Peace Brooklyn NY"

My complete lack of knowledge of 'Murrican saws let's me down here, but from your description, I reckon you've taken a shine to it and thus well worth making the effort with it.

"??"- straightback 26", ~7.5PPI cross-cut. This one has a big kink and a crack in the plate about 8" from the tip. No identifying marks that I could see, but the handle is reinforced with a metal plate on both sides.

Unless someone steps in and points out reinforced handles like that indicate it's a saw armour-plated for use in the Civil War and worth top dollar or some such nonsense, it sounds like a candidate for scrapers and/or a handy 18" long panel saw...

"??" - skewback 26", ~6.5PPI rip. This one has evidently been in the wars - the sawplate is down to 5.1" at the handle and 1.4" at the tip, the medallion and all but two nuts are missing, blade has two kinks in it and evidently the entire thing has been dipped in paint at some point. The chipcarved handle looks a lot like a Disston to me.

Scrapers, save the saw nuts, if you're feeling keen on doing some paint removal maybe save the handle too, 'cos it looks sound.

Spear & Jackson - straightback 26" with nib, 5.5PPI cross-cut. The plate has a gradual curve to it and a small kink & crack in the toothline towards the tip. about 6.7" of plate depth left. Handle is in terrible condition, and rather club-like.

This sounds like an ex-saw. This saw is no more. It's joined the saw till invisible. If it looks like twitching into life at all, club it to death and put the poor thing out of its misery.

I now stand back and await someone who knows what they're talking about to jump all over me with spiky shoes and point out I've advised you to keep an infamous radioactive Disston while junking an early piece by Damien Hirst entitled "Dead Saw #4". :wink:

 

[CroppyBoy1798]

Wow! I am green with envy, what I'd give for a stack of saws like that!! I've developed a mild obsession lately with restoring old hand saws and using them, was using two today in fact, FAR more satisfying than some old disposable saw.

I remember seeing a saw lately on the net with a reinforcing plate like the one you have!! I cant recall what it was or where I seen it but I'll try find it.

 

[Trizza]

Disston D-8 - skewback 22", 12PPI cross-cut. Excellent condition - sawplate just needs a light scrub with steel wool and teeth a sharpen and it'll be a great saw. Etch is faint but visible, medallion reads "H Disston & sons Philada", so 1896-1917.

I suspect you know exactly what to do with this one. Yep, send it to me at Alf Towers, Cornwall, TR... No? Oh well, worth a shot...

Nice try mate

Harvey Peace, straightback ~26.5" with snapped nib, ~7.5PPI cross-cut. Front toe corner of the plate is snapped off, and needs the teeth completely re-cut. There is 6.8" of plate left though so plenty of space to retooth. Medallion reads "Harvey W Peace Brooklyn NY"

My complete lack of knowledge of 'Murrican saws let's me down here, but from your description, I reckon you've taken a shine to it and thus well worth making the effort with it.

A bit of research turned up that its likely from around 1875 or so, certainly 19th century. Most intriguing.


A few hours of sanding yielded this:

Top is the D-8 from the bottom left of the group shot, and bottom is that reinforced handle saw. The D-8 cleaned up nice, some very minor pitting and much of the etch is faint but still visible:

The bottom saw in the picture was the unknown reinforced handle saw. It took some serious elbow grease to get to this stage. I picked it because it looked like one of the most rusted ones, and it does indeed look like there is some major pitting - but only minor pitting near the toothline. I am very tempted to lop it off at the crack and have me that handy 18" panel saw, or sharpening practice if nothing else, but there is also this option:

What do you reckon?

 

[pedder]

Hi trizza,

before doing the cut on the red line make sure that the blade is not taper ground. If it is taper ground, the blade will be thinner at the front. That will make the blade binding in the kerf.

Another idea: Cut on the green line and add a little spline for a half back saw.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[Trizza]

Good point Pedder, I'll have to measure it up.

A suggestion on another forum was to cut it parallel to the toothline above the crack, use the cut off section for a bowsaw, and cut new teeth into the remainder. I'd lose a few cm of blade depth but this blade is pretty deep anyway. I quite like this option, as I've been thinking of making a bowsaw anyway.

Any suggestions on how to cut this stuff without drawing the temper? I have no access to a sheet metal shear.

 

[pedder]

Hi Trizza,

the advantage of bow saw against handsaws is: they can use much thinner blades. A bowsaw blade is about 0,6mm, a handsaw 0,9-1,0mm.
If you want to make a bow saw, get thin material. (HS-Folien) 5m (8-10 bow saw blades) will cost about 20€.

Any suggestions on how to cut this stuff without drawing the temper?

No first hand suggestions. (I have access to a metal shear). If you cut on the green line a tin snipe is a godd tool.

To make long cuts I read about the use of special blades for the angle grinder. I never tried that. Don't like the angle grinder in a woodshop.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[Alf]

I've used a cut off disc in a Dremel before now. And an angle grinder. And for short distances scoring and snapping with the blade sandwiched between two bits of hardwood is pretty effective. As with all heat producing actions, take your time and let the tool do its work and you should be okay. If in doubt, stop and let everything cool down. fwiw I'd go with the 18" panel saw or a half back - I have both such types and find them very handy, and it's not as though you don't already have quite a few larger sizes of saw in your possession now! :lol:

 

[Trizza]

Today I milled the "lumber" (cheap pine shelving) to make a quick-and-dirty toolbox to hold the new saws, and decided to do all the sawing with the Disston 8.5 cross-cut and the Warranted Superior 5.5 rip. I whipped up a rough and ready sharpening vice with some scrap pine and sharpened up the rip.

I tell you what - ripping with a freshly sharpened western handsaw is a religious experience! It just breezed through that 3/4" pine. Far less frustrating than the ryoba I've been using until now. I also used it to resaw some 3" wide stock in thickness, and that was a much more pleasant experience as well.

The slight curve in the X-cut caused a bit of binding in the kerf, so I'll have to try to coax that one straight again.

 

[CroppyBoy1798]

Trizza, I did something similar with a saw I was restoring, ie took a few mm's off it as there was also a small crack in the blade so I had to go beyond this and cut new teeth from scratch. There a bit of info about it in the link below:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/a-la ... our%20love

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/made ... 40051.html


Basically, I naiively though that I could just grind the teeth off, gradually, bit by bit, this worked fine, the only problem being that it heated up the metal too much and essentially hardened it, oops. The solution was a 5" stainless steel cutting disc in an ALDI grinder, set up in the jig shown in the link and it cut through it, at a lower temp, like a knife through butter!

 

[Trizza]

Nice work on the saw! I think I'll end up doing similar with mine. I'm thinking that a Dremel would be handy for lots of other things too so I might get one of those.

 

[Plumberpete]

I'm not sure whether I should post this here or start another thread but here goes anyway! I just bagged myself a beautiful old Thomas Turner & co. 26" rip saw with 3tpi that needs a little bit of restoration work. My question is - does anyone know of a way to polish the blade/remove surface rust/patination without losing the etching? The etching on the saw is completely intact (Thomas Turner & Co., Trade Mark, Encore, Suffolk Works Sheffield, Cast Steel Warranted) but is only a few shades darker than the colour of the saw and I would love to bring it back to life but don't really know how....

Also, is there a special screwdriver for removing the brass screws or is this something I should machine up myself? :?

 

[pedder]

Hi Pete,

there are many people knowing better than me, but I think your saw is quite old, because Thomas Turner & Co. apperead in 1841. http://backsaw.net/index.php?option=com ... tstart=900

To keep the etch nice it is better to use a block of hardwood to sand. It's because the etched parts are a little deeper than the surrounding steel.

You probably found split nuts? (Otherwise you probably wouldn't have asked for a special screwdriver.) You can easily make your own from a spade drill. http://pedder-altedamenauskiel.blogspot ... river.html

But I if you can clean without unscrewing, better do it that way. In many cases unscrewing will destroy the thread.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[Plumberpete]

Thanks Pedder, I'll keep that sawmakers list in my favourites as I've got a thing for old saws! I think it is one of their older ones (I noticed that there's a listing for 1925 too) because of the shape of both blade and handle but I'm no expert! I wanted to take the handle off so that I could sand it and add a wood renourisher. The screws and makers medallion could do with a spot of brasso too! How do you load photos on here? I could put a few up if I knew how...