Pen making accessories help needed!

[=Adam=]

Hi guys!

I want to purchase a mandrel and shorter tool rest for my lathe (jet 1642) but i have got a few questions.


1) I like the deluxe kit from axminster which is £33, but it isnt clear as to what bushings it comes with, do i need to buy extra ones for the 7mm kits or are the ones supplied for basic 7mm slimline pens?

2) Should i get thw jet tool rest for £22 from axminster or the m950 one for £8? I know thw m950 is shorter and i have ised one on a 1642 in college, it seemed a tad too short but did the job. Or is it worth getting the sorby tool post and making some tool rests up?

3) What is everyone using to finish their pens with? I have used a ca finish but have also been told that carnuba (spelling?) wax is the way to go.

Any tips would be great!

Cheers

 

[woodyturner]

I had the axminster mandrel for a few years before giving up turning and it is good one advantage is you can buy different size collets for it and use it as a collet chuck it comes with 7mm and cone bushes not sure about your choice of toolrest but you need one at least 5" long as for finish I used the hut crystel and the hut sticks polishes for years from Turners retreat I hope this helps

 

[Neil Farrer]

Axminster mandrel is good as is the expensive fancy blue box it comes in. The record equivalent is at about £19, £14 better in my opinion! Whatever your choice though I would make it one or other of these. Be careful, particularly if you chose to buy abroad as there is a slight difference in some of the rod thicknesses and some bushings can subsequently rattle. Took me ages to suss out why I was getting a lightly off centre pen. particularly if I hadnt wound the securing nut onto the rod far enough so that the tailstock end bushing was resting on the full rod not the threaded section which is by necessity slightly narrower and the bushings rattled even more.

Finish - ask ten woodturners and get eleven different answers, depends on the speed with which you finish, the presure you put on, etc etc, I use EEE cream and Shellaxax or cellulose sanding sealer and melamine spray depending on the wood, the latter is good if you want to try and avoid darkening the wood, good for spalted beech and the like. CA glue contains, I am told elements of cyanide, I'm not a chemist so could be wrong but the fumes did corrode a nib on a pen that I secured the top on before the stuff had cured and it rotted the surface, so if it can do that to a nib what's it doing to your lungs when it goes off. Smells vile and is messy. I hate it but I can feel about ten turners lining up to air opposite opinions.

Sorby tool posts? Up to you but I prefer a flat/angled tool rest for turning pens in particular but what ever you feel easy with.

 

[dannykaye]

I have the Evolution 9 from Turners Retreat https://www.turners-retreat.co.uk/p...making-accessories/evolution-9-mandrel-system and have been very happy with it. Different kits need different bushings and you will gradually get lots making them yoourself is possible but they need to be accurate.

I like the sorby rest, also available from Turners Retreat. Warning that site can be damaging to your wallet, especially as they now take paypal.

Finish - I like linseed oil and wax, but some of the harder finishes work better resisting wear on a pen. have a look at things like https://www.turners-retreat.co.uk/p...shing-products/chestnut-acrylic-lacquer-500ml

 

[Spindle]

Hi

If you're planning on turning a lot of pens I'd suggest buying an additional 'standard' tool rest and cutting it to exactly the size that suits you. They are usually only cast iron and will cut easily with a hacksaw and the edges can be smoothed with either an angle grinder or a file. Presto - one 'dedicated' tool rest.

Regards Mick

 

[Walter Hall]

In all honesty any of the main makes of mandrel will do just fine. I have used and or tested Rotur, Axminster, Turner's Retreat Evolution and Penn State Industries and apart from minor foibles there is no real difference. As Woody says, the Axminster one does have the advantage that it can be used as a collet chuck if you buy additional collets but this is of course only an advantage if you need or want a collet chuck.

I like the Sorby Modular Tool Rest System

In my opinion pens need a hard finish. Waxes and the like wear off in time whatever anyone tells you.

I use CA and I don't really share Neil's concerns about it although I do understand how he feels. I just use an extractor to clear the fumes away from the work area. I don't however use it with BLO as that does produce noxious vapours and serves no useful purpose that I can ascertain. Another alternative is to spray on a hard lacquer such as cellulose or acrylic.

Walter

 

[EnErY]

Sorry but I really don't see any point in ruining a lovely grained natural wood by covering it in a horrible plastic covering that can be enhanced with the correct oils and waxes without the problems of odours that are harmful to health.
I agree with Neils comments 100% I never use Ca or Blo both of these wear as do waxes and crack nowt wrong with polish . I do understand you have written a book on pens never read it and im not putting you down on this but its personal preference and mine is no CA
Regards
Bill

 

[12345Peter]

Sorry but I really don't see any point in ruining a lovely grained natural wood by covering it in a horrible plastic covering that can be enhanced with the correct oils and waxes without the problems of odours that are harmful to health.
I agree with Neils comments 100% I never use Ca or Blo both of these wear as do waxes and crack

I have never used crack and have never heard of it being used as a wood finish, yo turning must be smokin :wink:

 

[Walter Hall]

Thank you for your thoughts Bill. What I post and write is only my opinion. You are free to share it or disagree as you choose.

I am sure Adam will learn from experience what is the best finish for him, I just know what works for me.

 

[VikingAl]

Hi Adam, with regards to the pen finish I have recently treated my self to the deluxe pen making kit from Turners Retreat. It's got me started really well & I've made a fair few so far ( the picture downloading hasn't got started yet though). With the kit comes 2 polish sticks, 1 satin & 1 high gloss. These I find are really good & as I'm learning I'm experimenting so a few I have then used the stick & finished off with friction polish, I really like a glassy type of look. I'm aiming to get some hut polish for my acrylic pens but as it stands, the sanding gives them an amazing finish I find. If ever you fancy a look or hands on before you try I'm only up the road, just drop me a line. The mandrel is good as well but having not used anything else yet it's a bit of a biased opinion but Turners Retreat can supply me with different sized collets if & when I get the nerve to venture upwards from 7mm pens!.

Hope that helps a little!.

Al.

 

[Walter Hall]

Al, I use burnishing cream now to finish my acrylics after watching a demo by Mark Raby. Leaves a finish like glass.

Walter

 

[=Adam=]

Walter, I saw a similar demo by mark.

I cannot remember when he used the burnishing cream though! Does he do it before applying a friction polish, instead of one or after?

I have used my burnishing cream once and it has given a much longer lasting finish than just friction polish and wax!

 

[Robbo3]

Adam,

If you try to use a toolrest from a 12" capacity lathe on one with a 16" capacity, I suspect that you will forever curse its shortcomings.

Being the owner of several roundbar toolrests (Sorby), they have some drawbacks:
The tool overhang is greater.
The stem being thicker than the toolrest can prevent it being positioned as close to the wood as you would like.
They are not hardened & thus need dressing occasionally.
They are prone to rust.

Burnishing cream is just a mild abrasive. You use it to bring out the shine on a hard clear finish (Ca-Blo, Melamine or spray finish) & on acrylic or other man made materials.

 

[Walter Hall]

Does he do it before applying a friction polish, instead of one or after?!

Like Robbo said, it is just a fine abrasive. you don't need a finish on acrylic just polish it with progressively finer abrasives. brasso, t-cut, anything like that will do the job but burnishing cream is just that bit finer. I sand to 1500 or 1800 grit micromesh and then polish with the burnishing cream. Same system woks on hard finishes like CA or lacquer.

Walter

 

[VikingAl]

I never even thought of burnishing cream, ill definitely look into that, I was wondering if there were any other finishes that could be used by a novice that would provide an amazing finish!. Cheers Walter, much appreciated!.

 

[VikingAl]

Hi fellas, after reading about the burnishing cream & other ideas I have tried something else & it works really well!. Had a rummage in the kitchen cupboard, being ex army I knew there had to be some brasso in there somewhere, but, there was only silvero. So, had a little go of it on an acrylic pen, superb finish I must say, has to be the really fine particles in it I guess. Nothing tried nothing gained!.

 

[Woodski]

CA glue contains, I am told elements of cyanide, I'm not a chemist so could be wrong but the fumes did corrode a nib on a pen that I secured the top on before the stuff had cured and it rotted the surface, so if it can do that to a nib what's it doing to your lungs when it goes off. Smells vile and is messy. I hate it but I can feel about ten turners lining up to air opposite opinions.

FWIW and what I've picked up over the years...

CA/Cyanoacrylate reacts with the nearest available water or anything damp. Drip water in a bottle of CA and it gets very hot, very quick. It's used forensically to detect fingerprints on items - just cloche over with a cup and leave it to form a print. Breathing the fumes in is effectively putting that kind of coating on the inside of your lungs in places like the alveoli. I wouldn't recommend doing it without fume extraction as over time you could end up with long-term effects like COPD.

If you overheat (burn) CA it does decompose into a more poisonous mixture that will not do your health much good either. Normally we'd keep soldering irons well clear of anything that's had superglue on it for that reason. You do have to get it smoking hot for it to decompose, but then so does PTFE and other plastics.

You need some form of fume extraction if you're doing this day in day out.