pattern makers plane

[tobytools]

Hi, this my seem a bit of a silly question but what's a pattern makers plane about, and what's a pattern maker do? Is anyone out there a pattern maker

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Pattern makers make a model of a part which is to be cast in metal, which is then used to create a sand casting mold. Quite commonly the pattern is made in wood, often mahogany.

Whilst I have no claim to experience of pattern making, my dad, who is/was a genuine Sheffield steelworker, spent part of his career working in a pattern shop. Why they needed a patternmaker's plane (the sort with interchangeable bases and irons) I am unsure. They also used a pattern maker's ruler, which is not much use to anyone else as it is oversized to allow for the contraction of metal on cooling, so that the pattern is made oversized by the right amount to ensure that the casting, when cooled, is the right size. Later in his career, my father was a training instructor in welding and fabrication, and used to enjoy pulling the leg of his trainees using his pattern maker's rule to wind them up that they'd made something the wrong size...

 

[Duncumb.fc]

Sadly, pattern makers are an all but dead trade.
Pattern makers gouges are a fascinating one, they're incredibly useful things (paring gouges to some), but sadly they seem to also be dying!
If anyone could point me to someone who still makes paring gouges I'd be very grateful, searching tool shops for what you know isn't there is getting a bit tedious!

Fraser

 

[tobytools]

Frazer, sorry I don't know any one many ask Andy T. And Tony thanks a million im thinking of getting a pattern makers plane just to keep not use but they are like £70, nice tools tho. I like the history to these tools also Sheffield . Best tools ever.
Thanks

 

[Duncumb.fc]

I agree, Sheffield tools and history are both fascinating!
Hope you find a nice plane Toby!
Despite having my location as Loughborough, I'm actually currently based near Chichester, do you ever get across to Leeside Tools in Yapton Toby? It's quite a way from you, but it's a great shop!

Fraser

 

[AndyT]

Sadly, pattern makers are an all but dead trade.
Pattern makers gouges are a fascinating one, they're incredibly useful things (paring gouges to some), but sadly they seem to also be dying!
If anyone could point me to someone who still makes paring gouges I'd be very grateful, searching tool shops for what you know isn't there is getting a bit tedious!

Fraser

Did someone call?

Let's try and home in on what you are looking for.

At the simplest level, Axminster list a set of new, in-cannel gouges

at £67 for the set of three - http://www.axminster.co.uk/victor-victor-in-cannel-gouge-set-prod370626/

but I expect that you are looking for something longer and thinner, and just possibly cranked.
Used ones are not rare on ebay - though not cheap either. It might be easier to buy from someone who has already filtered through the junk - for example this selection from OldTools in Bexhill:

http://oldtools.co.uk/tools/Gouges.html

includes some good-looking long thin in-cannel gouges, some of which are cranked.

The same company's Toolnut operation lists these new paring gouges by Henry Taylor

http://www.toolnut.co.uk/products/chisels/gouges/Henry_Taylor_Paring_Gouge_Set_-_5_Piece.html

The set of five is shown as out of stock at the moment but they list some sizes individually.

Another source you could try is Bristol Design, in Bristol. They don't sell on-line so you would need to phone them. They mostly sell second-hand tools, but they have their own make of chisels and carving tools. I can definitely recall seeing cranked paring chisels in there; I can't be sure if they carry cranked gouges or not. Their very minimal web page will at least give you their location and phone number:

http://www.bristol-design.co.uk

I hope this helps!

 

[Duncumb.fc]

Ooh wow, thanks Andy!

I didn't realise Henry Taylor made paring gouges!
Yeah, I've never got on with cranked handles, too much flex, but I've got a nice paring gouge about 12 inches long (not included handle) and another one about 11... They're fantastic!
Old tools is one I didn't know about either, just a glance tells me that they're going to get plenty of business over time from me!

Fraser

 

[Duncumb.fc]

Sorry, I also realise that I've completely hijacked this thread!

Back to Pattern Makers Planes!

Fraser

 

[Duncumb.fc]

I think I just had a toolgasm...
http://www.leevalley.com/en/newsletters ... ection.htm

Fraser

 

[twothumbs]

One of the main skills was that they often worked in reverse which is not an easy thing to do but it would depend on what was being cast.

 

[AndyT]

Lurching back to the subject of what pattern makers do - just think of anything made of cast iron - gear wheels, columns, pipes, flanges, planes, most of a steam engine - the pattern makers would have made the exact shape out of wood. They really were the elite of woodworkers, as their products had to be made to exactly the right sizes in complicated shapes.
It wasn't just for cast metal either. I had a summer job once at a factory making cement roofing panels, with a matching range of rainwater hoppers, gulley, flues and suchlike. They had a big pattern making shop which produced the inside shapes for all of those. Some of them had to be made from exotic timbers so as to resist the wear of being wrapped up in hot cement all day long!

They needed to be able to make internal curved surfaces to exact dimensions, hence the requirement for curved bodied planes. They could also use a 'core box plane' for planing sections of cylinders - have a look on Blood and Gore for the Stanley 56 and 57 for the most un-plane looking plane.

 

[tobytools]

Andy to the rescue
Call his name and he will be there a TRUE super hero.
wow so these pattern makers where as you say the elite. I like the planes with a selection of blades and bodies there just good looking tools. Very ££ tho for a tool I have no need for.

As for hijacking the thread is all wood, glad I could aid in you help .
As for the shop I've never been do they thave a web site I can check out might have to do a day trip

 

[Duncumb.fc]

Andy to the rescue
Call his name and he will be there a TRUE super hero.
wow so these pattern makers where as you say the elite. I like the planes with a selection of blades and bodies there just good looking tools. Very ££ tho for a tool I have no need for.

As for hijacking the thread is all wood, glad I could aid in you help .
As for the shop I've never been do they thave a web site I can check out might have to do a day trip

Here's the website, http://www.leesidetools.com/

They're a mainly in-store jobby...

Fraser

 

[Bracken3621]

Feeling quite elite as I am a time served Pattern Maker and have all my old tools in the very tool box I made as an Apprentice, I was allowed each week to order one tool "no sets" that's was paid for my the company. Dress was shirt and tie compulsory + bib.

It's not a dying trade as you may think.

They will always need Pattern Makers granted times have changed but " there is nothing new, just a variation of the old "

The plane you asked about is not one I had, fillet planes were the most popular along with smoothing planes oh and a nice palm size block plane " bull nosed " many tools we made ie :small hand held routers fillet irons for both leather fillets and wax Ha! for the wax fillets we had an old car wax tin with a wick filled with meth's " fire hazard" know one ever batted an eye lid when your bench would set on fire

Great times and when I left the owner said to me:

Remember: Pattern Makers don't make good Joiners and Joiners don't make good Pattern Makers ??

 

[MusicMan]

Bracken, I'm sure we would all love to see pictures of your pattern-making tools and tool box!

Keith

 

[Bracken3621]

I will dust it off asap Keith

 

[toolsntat]

Hi Toby, hope your well, I'll keep my eyes open for you 8)

Check out this one I managed to get hold of :ho2 :ho2
Drive by gloat :wink: :roll:
Andy

pattern-makers-radius-plane-professionally-made-t76276.html?hilit=%20pattern

 

[toolsntat]

Sadly, pattern makers are an all but dead trade.
Pattern makers gouges are a fascinating one, they're incredibly useful things (paring gouges to some), but sadly they seem to also be dying!
If anyone could point me to someone who still makes paring gouges I'd be very grateful, searching tool shops for what you know isn't there is getting a bit tedious!

Fraser

May be worth your while making a visit back to Loughborough Fraser.
The Stanley sale is coming soon =P~ 25/26th March http://www.davidstanley.com/international-tool-auction
Most of your shopping list would be catered for on the DEALER tables :idea:

Come to think of it about time we saw you again Toby, Andy, et alia

Cheers
Andy

 

[Jelly]

It's not a dying trade as you may think.

They will always need Pattern Makers granted times have changed but " there is nothing new, just a variation of the old."

Shrinking Trade might be more appropriate, I was made redundant last year and decided to try to get an apprenticeship as a patternmaker, speaking to about 15 pattern shops and foundries they all had a similar answer in the vein of
"We need to replace someone who's retiring soon, and would be interested in taking someone on... But sales are down and we need them to stabilise before we take anyone on, can you contact us next spring if you're still looking"

I had a long chat with the owner of one foundry, who was explaining how their sand casting operations had changed over time to accommodate larger and more complex pours in increasingly high specifications of alloys, and we both lamented the O&G downturn.

 

[katellwood]

Hi, this my seem a bit of a silly question but what's a pattern makers plane about, and what's a pattern maker do? Is anyone out there a pattern maker

As you're in Bournemouth have a ride up to Basingstoke, Milestones Museum. They have a small patternshop setup linked to a traction engine manufacturing display. I saw a patternmakers plane as part of the display (you will recognise it as it has two keyhole shaped slots in the base to facilitate the changing of different bases)

Its a great day out, well worth a visit

I served the first six months of my apprenticeship in a patternshop training centre which was attached to a foundry training centre in the seventies. I became aware how accurate the work was and how the foundry workers manipulated the patterns in sand to create the final cast iron item, one of the training exercises for apprentice patternmakers was to make their own plane pattern this being eventually cast next door in the foundry.