Oak Table Top

[CWatters]

Could use some advice on building a pair of simple oak tables around 1400mm x 750/800mm with 30-40mm tops or at least tops that look that thick. I originally looked at buying an oak worktop or similar panel but they seem expensive compared to assembling my own which I've not done before. So main questions are...

1) How wide boards would you recommend? 5 x 150mm? 8 x 100mm? 10 x 80mm?
2) If buying planned timber should I allow for possible snipe on the lengths?
3) Would you insist on and/or pay more for quarter grain boards for stability?
4) Any good alternative methods of construction? Winwood Triply looks interesting (but perhaps expensive?) or perhaps veneered blockboard/mdf? However I wouldn't want to just iron-on veneer the edges.

Was planning to assemble 80mm square legs from 20mm boards.

I have an 8" table saw and a router but not a planer/thicknesser if that makes a difference.

Thanks.

 

[John15]

Hi Colin,
I'm a novice compared to most on the forum but I've made a couple of tables in the past six months, one of them in oak, so I'll try to answer some of your questions.
Using your numbering -
1. Random board widths can be used. A range from 100 to 200mm would be fine.
2. Allow at least 50mm extra to the ends of the boards to allow for defects and squaring up.
3. Providing the timber has been properly kiln dried and there is no evidence of cupping or splitting then quarter sawn isn't a absolute necessity. When selecting your boards try to get them with a similar grain pattern.
4. One of the more experienced furniture makers will be able to answer this question.
5. You can buy full thickness timber for the legs which will be easier than making them up from thin sections.
6. If you buy the boards planed to size you will not need a planer/thicknesser. You will just need to cut them to length.

I hope the above is helpful, and hopefully a member more experienced than me will come on to expand or correct my comments.

Cheers,

John

 

[carlb40]

As to No 4 you could apply a solid lipping to a veneered board. Any where from 5mm to 20mm+
But one thing to consider is your design. If you want a slender looking table top, often the under side is tapered. So if you go that route then either solid timber through out or a wide lipping to provide enough material to be able to taper the underside without going into the veneered board.

 

[custard]

Hello Colin, a table top in the dimensions you listed would weigh about 35kg. That's quite a bit for someone to move around on their own, and it underlines that largish projects in oak are not for the fainthearted! I'd be hesitant about running a piece of timber that size across a small table saw to square the edges, and would probably use a hand held circular saw running against a straight edge or on a track.

You can make gluing up the top a bit easier on yourself by using biscuits or dowels to help locate each board accurately to its neighbour, and you'll need at least five sash cramps to do the job properly, although if you have more don't be shy about using them!

You could make the top out of 18-25mm thick material and run some underslung lipping around the edges to make it look thicker, but the lipping at the ends would have to be end grain to prevent it all splitting apart at the next change of season.

I don't know how much experience you have, but if I understood your post correctly you've never jointed boards before to make a top. If that's the case you might be better off practising the general techniques first on a smaller top, say bedside table sized. Here's a link to a cracking little project that would go a long way to preparing you for a bigger challenge.


http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-co ... 4-Seg2.pdf

 

[RobinBHM]

A biscuit jointer, or 4mm groover for a router would really help to stop the boards sliding on the glue as you cramp them up.

If you choose to make from solid timber you will need a belt sander or handplane for flushing after assembly.

Once the tops are made but still WIP, dont just leave them on a bench for any length of time -lean them up with some sheet material either side. It doesnt take much moisture to be absorbed one side for a top to curl.

 

[CWatters]

Thanks for the tips. I'll have a look at how the costs work out using either solid or veneered board.

I have done a few projects both bigger and smaller but not requiring this combination of scale and quality. In the past I've had a lot of trouble hand planning timber that is wider than the plane especially when they grain is variable. The plane either skids over the surface or digs in or takes out short deep shavings or tear outs. I don't seem to have the same level of problems planning narrower stock. Guess I will have to try to get the boards aligned accurately so they only need sanding. Perhaps a good excuse to buy a belt sander I already have a hand held circular saw.

Not used biscuits before. Is it better to cut the slots with a router and a biscuit cutter bit, the router in a table with a straight bit or on the table saw?

If I go for a veneered board with frame I was thinking of rebating the frame to strengthen the joint and using an inlay to disguise the join on the top surface. I did some marquetry 30 years ago when I was a youngster but I've not done any inlay work before. I've looked at a few videos on youtube and it doesn't look too difficult.

I plan to make the legs detachable which will help reduce the weight and allow me to get them upstairs.

Here is my current project, a mirror frame. The half lap joints were trenched out on the table saw using a regular blade. I don't have a mortiser so for the square peg holes I drilled holes by hand then took the centre bit out of a mortise bit and used it with a mallet. Pleased with the way the front turned out but I hope nobody asks to see the back

 

[phaedrus]

Quarter-sawn timber is, in my opinion worth the extra money. It's much more stable and shouldn't cup. Also quartered oak displays very attractive medullary rays. If you don't buy quartered timber bear in mind that the wider the boards the greater the tendency to cup. If you don't own a planer it would be worth seeing how much a joinery shop would charge to plane it for you; even then you'd still have to handplane the edges to make sure they were perfectly square and straight. If you use biscuits cut the slots with the router/ jointer always on the face sides to avoid problems with them lining up. As you fit one board to another (dry) mark them and keep them in that order when you glue them up. Alternate the sash clamps ie one on top the next one underneath. Don't let the clamps come into contact with the top; metal, especially if there's glue as well, will react with the tannic acid in oak and stain it black. If you get a belt sander it's worth getting one with a base for large areas. Don't forget to finish (varnish?) the underside as well as the top so the absorbtion / release of moisture is even. These comments hardly scratch the surface of this topic but hopefully might be of some help.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Do we have a fan of Robert Pirsig....Phaedrus

 

[Racers]

That's what I was thinking.

Lets hope he doesn't lead the OP in to a Gumption trap :wink:


Pete

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Quite so....we only want quality round here

 

[Racers]

Can you define that?

:shock:

Pete

 

[phaedrus]

Many years since I read anything by Robert Pirsig. If anything Fine Woodworking is more responsible. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Can you define that?

:shock:

Pete

I could......but then I would be a "Cartesian dualist" and I prefer to live in a world without subjects or objects (like that of the woodturner )

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

On a more serious note...Mr Pirsig's ideas have helped me directly in my woodworking on occasion. One particular time I was trying to replicate the Elder Wand. This is Professor Dumbledore's fabled "most powerful wand ever built" from the Harry Potter books. My kids were desperate for one and they cost £25 for a blow moulded piece of plastic rubbish through the official merchandising channel. So I thought I'd turn one (two in fact for two kids)

I kept getting the valleys in between the humps wrong and having to start again until I remembered Pirsig's wise words. [he said] The jobs finished when you have achieved peace of mind. At first I thought whats he on about, the jobs done when you reach the tolerance on the spec. But what about before the spec was written? What about when the design was first innovated? In this case the reference is when you feel the ratio between the valley and the hump is about right....when you have peace of mind...stop turning. I tried that and it worked. This was how it turned out in the end (after several prototypes where I didn't stop at peace of mind).

 

[phaedrus]

It certainly is a bugger when you get the valleys in between the humps wrong.

 

[Racers]

I have a friend who is a perfectionist, nothing is good enough and he lets you know, he even picks fault with things that aren't his.
God knows how he gets any thing done.

Back to the table, you need the boards for the top to fit together very well, it might be possible to get the wood yard to do it, but it can be done by hand with a little practice. Biscuits will help align the top but you will need to plain or sand the top as the boards won't be exactly level.

Biscuit slots are best cut with a biscuit joiner or a slot cutter in a hand-held router.

Quarter sawn timber is the nicest looking IMHO.

Pete

 

[CWatters]

Thanks again folks.

 

[CWatters]

In the end I decided to go with an oak veneered block board framed with 100mm x 35mm. I was going to simply rebate the frame to take the panel and increase glue area but I'm now wondering if that's safe/wise? Should I be thinking about making it a floating panel with a small clearance? Sorry for the basic questions - I'm very new at this (even though I did join in 2007).

 

[custard]

Colin, when you say "block board" what exactly do you mean? Some people use the term to mean different things.

 

[Benchwayze]

Colin.

Floating panel construction was used in the old 1930s 'draw-leaf' tables. We had one when I was a nipper. The 'clearance' is a problem as it gets clogged up over the years with wax and becomes very noticeable. Blockboard is a good choice though, and the stuff I always used (made from 40-50 mm wide strips) never let me down.

But if you want solid timber, than you'll never be satisfied with make-do. If you go for solid wood after all, then through-sawn logs usually have two or three boards from the centre of the bole, that will display the figure. You need to find a yard where they will allow you to sort through the stacks for a decent centre-board. Not so pricey as quarter-sawn. You can make up your own mind about removing the sapwood, but with the oak I've used, I never had any problem, and the figure usually displays across the whole width. To lighten the table use 25 mm thick boards and then apply 25 mm strips around the table, on the underside of the edge, to give the appearance of a 'meatier' top. A bit of chip carving around the edge and you will barely notice the join! You could even drop in a few 'butterfly-wedges' for the Edward Barnsley look! With a table-width of around 800 mm, I'd suggest 200 mm wide boards edge joined.

Ergo, why spoil the ship for a penny-worth of tar?

HTH