Oak Bookcase Joints

[John15]

My next project is to be an 1800 x 750 Oak bookcase with possibly doors fixed to the bottom 500mm.

I would like to ask members for suggestions for fixing the shelves, and top and bottom to the sides.
I want the shelves to be permanently fixed so no peg type system to be used. I am assuming it will be housing joints for the shelves, but is a stronger joint necessary for the top and bottom? The sides will be visible so I would prefer not to have any fixing work visible on these faces.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Regards,

John

 

[markblue777]

To my understanding (quite new to wood working) oak moves quite a bit. Especially as it is going to be indoors. So if you are fixing these shelves permanently I would avoid glue as gluing end grain to cross grain could cause for splitting with expansion of the wood.

I would say do a stopped front housing on the sides for the shelves to go into so you slide the shelves in from the back. maybe toe a finish nail to make sure it stays but I think with just the stopped housing at the front and then the back board of the bookcase it should be plenty to keep it in place with out the need of nails.

for the top and bottom I would say rebate the sides top and bottom and set the top and bottom panels in them. you can glue these and maybe some finish nails hit under the surface and then filled over. or you could use a dowel to secure in place and then flush cut. (you could also do some large dove tails to do the joinery for the top and bottom or finger joints, I think this would look nice and add something a little different)

As I say I'm new to woodworking so I may have just talked a load of rubbish or maybe something is right in there. Other views welcome.

Cheers
Mark

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you fix shelves, 9 times out of 10 they will be in the wrong place. Consider the toothed strip method of adjustment - some kind person will give you a drawing. Very traditional, very neat and very efficient.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

When I make a tall book case as you're doing I house all the shelves including top and bottom because I overshoot the sides at top and bottom to create fixing points for a base/skirting/plinth depending on design and for either a crown moulding on top or other appropriate decorative "forehead". I route the groove from front to back with no stop because personally I quite like to see the joint on display at the front. I rather like to celebrate the joint than hide it with a stopped approach but that's just personal taste. Obviously it should be a perfect fit to do this but with a router jig that's not difficult.

Then I decorate top and bottom with whatever is appropriate for the project ie skirting if its a built in so it looks wrapped around as if its part of the room and a different form of plinth/moulding if its a standalone as yours sounds like it will be. I rebate the back sides, top and bottom to house the back which is typically ply (and quite thin).

I've used all manner of fixing methods for the shelves in the past starting with glued, screwed and plugged to housed and glued. I've not had one split on me yet but I do take considerable care with AWO to acclimatise it in the room for at least 6 weeks before use even with kiln dried wood so the MC is at equilibrium with a centrally heated house. I don't find oak moves much once its dry and inside and stays inside. Its when you install it wet and then it drys inside that you get problems. But that's just my experience, it may that I've got away with it because I haven't built many, not on a commercial scale by any means.

I've not yet tried dominos without glue as a fixing method but see no reason why this wouldn't be a really strong and fast method. You wouldn't be able to move the shelves but it sure would be strong.

 

[marcros]

a sliding dovetail is the fancy way of doing it, assuming it is solid timber rather than veneered board. You can further tart it up with stopped and/or tapered sliding dovetails. Seems a shame to hide such a joint!

Alternatively, a straight housing joint and a face frame.

You say that you want fixed shelves, and phil points out that they will probably be in the wrong place. If the concern is that you want to avoid anything that looks too modern, the traditional alternative was posted by AndyT once, but I cant find the post. It looked like a sawtooth type support though, and was much more subtle. Andy's picture was nicer but this is the idea http://blog.woodcraft.com/2012/11/the-h ... f-systems/

 

[John15]

Thanks for the above advice. It's given me something to work on.
Cheers,
John

 

[AndyT]

You do need something stronger for the top and bottom.

I've used lap dovetails at the top when there was no cornice, and a dovetailed housing at the bottom where the vertical sides continued a few inches below the bottom shelf to make the feet.

You could then use plain housings (through or stopped) on the shelves.

If you have a lot of intermediate shelves to fix, do think about the complexity of the glue up,especially if you won't have a helper. A big advantage of adjustable shelves is that you won't have so many bits to fight with at the same time.

Another way to cope with that is to design so that your intermediate shelves can slide in from the back after the outer frame is done. That's possible with tapered sliding dovetails but not with plain housings.

As Marcros mentioned it, here's a link to my bookcase with adjustable shelves https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post806884.html#p806884

Also, this thread on another bookcase may help.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/hand-tooled-bookcase-in-ash-t51016.html

 

[Phil Pascoe]

That first link shows the way I was thinking of - thanks, Andy.

 

[John15]

Thanks Andy for these ideas. In my first post I said I wanted the shelves to be fixed but now having seen photos of the wooden peg support I'm changing my mind - they look much better than I had imagined. I'm not so keen on the appearance of the saw-tooth supports - to me they don't look very elegant.

I'm pleased you confirmed dovetails for the top and bottom corners. This will form a strong 'box'.

Regards,
John