Novice plane question

[Chris_belgium]

I am a total novice in woodworking and am only making my first steps into woodworking. I stumbled upon these planes in a local add, but since i know nothing about planes, will they be of use to me? What I'll be using the planes for is, adjusting tenons, finishing dovetails and stuff like that. Is this the type of planes that i'll need for that? And what do planes like this usually cost?

 

[Scrit]

Hello

The top one is a rebate plane - used for working rebates and not much else - the bottom one a smoother - a general use bench plane with 1001 uses for trimming and adjusting flat surfaces, etc. To adjust a tenon you'll probably need something like a shoulder plane rather than a rebate and (through) dovetails are best sawn with (appropriately) a dovetail saw, waste removed with a coping saw and finished with a chisel. No planes normally involved in cutting or adjusting

Scrit

 

[GEPPETTO]

Hi Chris,
Welcome here. :shock: Guys, now is one of few moments I give to someone advice :roll:
Well let's come to your question.... the first means to me to be as a Stanley #78 which is classified as #78 Duplex filletster and rabbet plane and it's used to make rabbets at the edge of a slab. Only long grain. There's even the other possibility: cross grain. But before the use you must cut the fibers with a cutter or knife at the inner profile of the rabbet.
..the second is a type Stanley Bailey #4 (or #3 someone more expert correct me :roll: ) and it's used as smoother after a fore plane or a #5 which are longer.
Will they be of use for you? Yes! Firstly the smoother togheter with a #5 or #7.
However for more details see this site which is as a bible of hand planes.

:roll: if may I give an advice to you I'd say: if you are a novice about planning begin with planes which make a surface flat and even.. when you have even a few more experience try to use planes to make rabbets. I made in this way.
This is what is sprung in mind in these few minutes, however this forum and others can give you a lot of advices.
Not always it needs to have some tools to make a job, you must be able to drive they and HOW to tune it. Lokk at somewhat "tuning hand plane" and sharpening-honing handplane blades.

You don't worry to ask any questions, here is a place where you'll found all your answers. :wink:

P.S. I hope the translation of what was in my mind is right. :roll:

Cheers
Gabriele :wink:

 

[Midnight]

P.S. I hope the translation of what was in my mind is right.

looks just fine to me Gabriele..

 

[Chris_belgium]

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Shady]

Chris: just be aware that any plane will frustrate and annoy you until you're confident that you can put a razor sharp edge on it. This is normally overlooked by newcomers to this hobby, but is the key to actually enjoying using hand tools - and producing decent results. Have a look around the forum for discussions on the pros and cons of various methods for achieving this. Here's a great collection of links for advice on various aspects of all this stuff...

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To.htm

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Chris,

Taking an overview, you have started out well by asking yourself the most important question early on: What do I want to do to the timber? In this case trimming tenons and cleaning up joinery.

The next question is: which types of tool are specifically designed for, or have a capacity for these jobs? In the case of trimming tenons the specialised tools are shoulder planes – bullnose, medium or large. These are narrow planes with a blade the full width of the plane, installed bevel up. A multi purpose alternative that will handle this, as well as other jobs, is a rabbetting block plane – similar to an ordinary block plane but with open sides and a full width blade.

For the dovetails I would recommend sanding, you always end up sanding endgrain anyway and as a beginner; good quality abrasives, in a range of grits, will probably cost you less in both money and frustration. Whilst you are looking at abrasives, it would be worth reading up on the ‘scary sharp’ method of sharpening, which will give you an acceptable edge for a very small investment. You will almost certainly require a bench plane for preparing the stock before you cut your dovetails though. It is very much a case of personal choice but the No. 5, No. 5 ½, No.6 or No.62 wouldn’t be a bad short list.

New or used? A used plane will often require significant effort to clean up and prepare for work, (this is a thoroughly enjoyable hobby in itself.) If you are buying over the internet, asking for a close-up photo of the blade bevel, blade back and sole, will give you a good idea of how well the tool has been cared for.

On the other hand a new plane may cost a little more initially but should require minimal honing and tuning to get you to the point where you are ready to cut wood, and if things don’t work out you can always sell it again. Anant do a Bullnose shoulder plane, No. 5 and a No. 6 for less that 40 Euros each. It all depends upon whether you have proportionally more time or money to invest.

Gabrielle makes an excellent point about first learning to achieve a flat surface with a bench plane, this is the primary function of a hand plane and will give you a sound starting point from which to learn about the intricacies of other planes designed for specific jobs.

In closing, I would also suggest investing a few Euros in an educational video or book. Tools are only half the story and skills are very definitely best acquired secondhand.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,


Matthew

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Matthew

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Alf]

Welcome to the forum, Matthew.

For the dovetails I would recommend sanding, you always end up sanding endgrain anyway...

Just to make you feel right at home straight away - I disagree! (Sorry) At least with the "always" if it's in "forever and ever even when you're not a novice any more" terms.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

For the dovetails I would recommend sanding, you always end up sanding endgrain anyway

err, no you don't. Well, more accurately, no I don't, and I do cut a lot of dovetails but hardly ever sand them after planing with the LA smoother

 

[matthewwh]

Thank you for your responses and your welcomes guys, I love that engineer signature – it’s so true!

It sounds like I have opened a can of worms with that comment about sanding, maybe I should explain myself.

I agree that a very sharp, good quality, low angle plane will cut endgrain beautifully and leave a very reasonable finish in short time. It is also without question the best tool for bringing endgrain accurately to dimension.

Also I admit that dovetails are a bad example as they are a mix of end and cross grain, however for a new woodworker, with limited tools, experience and budget, I’d still be tempted to go down the sanding route to begin with.

The logic behind the ‘always’ is as follows and works on the assumption that shiny is desirable.

For preparing long grain surfaces a plane or cabinet scraper will always give a better finish than sanding because the tubular cells of the wood are being sheared cleanly along their length. Sanding tends to rip and splinter them and fills the voids between with debris which will in turn inhibit the penetration and refraction of light after the piece is finished.

On endgrain however, the tubular cells are cut straight across, making refraction impossible, - throw a tennis ball into the end of a smooth cylinder and try to get it to bounce back out…. in this instance we do want to split the cell ends, almost like a microscopic brush, to create a more uniform reflective surface that the light can bounce off.

If you are not convinced try cross cutting a scrap piece of timber and plane one cut surface. On the other one begin with 150 grit and go down step by step to about 400 using progressively lighter pressure with the finer grits.

Getting back to Chris’s planes; Maybe a low angle rabbeting block plane would be the best choice for a tenon trimmer, as it will be more versatile. Is anyone aware of any other makes than LN or Sargent for these?

 

[Tony Spear]

Only long grain. There's even the other possibility: cross grain. But before the use you must cut the fibers with a cutter or knife at the inner profile of the rabbet.


Cheers
Gabriele :wink:

Gabriele,

if you look closely at the right hand side of a Stanley 78 just in front of the rear blade position, you'll find that it has a built-in scriber for cross-grain work!

 

[GEPPETTO]

Only long grain. There's even the other possibility: cross grain. But before the use you must cut the fibers with a cutter or knife at the inner profile of the rabbet.


Cheers
Gabriele :wink:

Gabriele,

if you look closely at the right hand side of a Stanley 78 just in front of the rear blade position, you'll find that it has a built-in scriber for cross-grain work!

mmmhh.. I didn't never have look closely at it.. I'll see #-o

 

[GEPPETTO]

....... Only long grain. There's even the other possibility: cross grain. But before the use you must cut the fibers with a cutter or knife at the inner profile of the rabbet...

Hi guys.. perhaps I have drunk my brain...I think the thing is I used the #78 only one time long grain only and hence I didn't remember the scriber..
..and what poor figure.. :roll: as first advice :roll: