Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Not so noticeable with blokes because they'd have a pipe stuck in the gap.
And now we have the NHS, for a little longer at least, and all the
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New Router Plane
- Thread starter G S Haydon
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And now we have the NHS, for a little longer at least, and all the
Jarno
Established Member
Jeah, there was a discussion on this plane on a dutch forum as well, in the video Katz Moses mentions he worked a long time on it, but indeed tis but another Chinese plane. It is also very expensive to buy in Europe when compared to US, so the thing Katz-Moses has been working so hard and long on, is an exclusivity deal for his US shop, not on the actual design of the plane.
The fact that they included a low backlash height adjustment is nice, but I do have some questions on the engineering side of things. A linear guide of two cylindrical rods and two cylindrical holes is overconstraint by itself, if you tie that to a another linear guide I think it'll bind somewhere. Also, that linear guide which is used to guide the plane iron, also needs to be strong enough to withstand the force exerted on it by using the plane, which, I wonder.
Engineering is about tradeoffs, in order to make things not overconstraint so they move freely, and strong enough, you might need a bit of play somewhere.
Stanley/ Record/ Veritas/ Lie Nielsen engineers are not morons, if they could've done something about excessive backlash, they would have (given economic tradeoffs).
The fact that they included a low backlash height adjustment is nice, but I do have some questions on the engineering side of things. A linear guide of two cylindrical rods and two cylindrical holes is overconstraint by itself, if you tie that to a another linear guide I think it'll bind somewhere. Also, that linear guide which is used to guide the plane iron, also needs to be strong enough to withstand the force exerted on it by using the plane, which, I wonder.
Engineering is about tradeoffs, in order to make things not overconstraint so they move freely, and strong enough, you might need a bit of play somewhere.
Stanley/ Record/ Veritas/ Lie Nielsen engineers are not morons, if they could've done something about excessive backlash, they would have (given economic tradeoffs).
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
No but they are speculators. They don't really know how well their products will work out until they've subjected them to the final test i.e. having them on the market for a long enough to find out.
Even duds might turn out to be quite fashionable years later and have a bit of a boom, as we all know!
Jarno
Established Member
Yes, well, I am not holding my breath until the Stanley 194 and 195 are on the top of everyone's "want" list because all of a sudden they turn out to be incredibly practical 
pgrbff
Established Member
Which Swedish retailers do you recommend? I occasionally try and source items in Sweden but have little luck.
An example of this would be?
I have ordered from https://www.hyvlar.se/, they are an established and well regarded retailer. They ship internationally and have an enlish version of their site.
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
Their Tormek T8 is half the price we pay so for some of the goodies they might be an option for me.
Pete
Tony Zaffuto
Established Member
The router plane looks like a copy of LV's casting. I've never had an issue that requiring the fiddling around that the Katz-Moses appears to have with the shiny, brass knobs.
To me, this plane is aimed at those looking to enlist as fanbois for a YouTuber.
To me, this plane is aimed at those looking to enlist as fanbois for a YouTuber.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
https://www.dorchdanola.dk/brands/tormek/93840403.htmlTheir Tormek T8 is half the price we pay so for some of the goodies they might be an option for me.
Pete
The T8 might even be a bit cheaper in Denmark at the moment, I think I paid 3500kr for mine a while back.
Currently 864 + tax in the US for the base machine with one arm and the se-77 jig.
1103 + tax for the system plus gadgets.
Last year, I bought a taiwanese (not chinese) industrial jet wheel grinder and a 4800 foot a minute contact wheel and platen belt grinder attachment for $700. Industrial meaning it's about 1350 watts and high speed meant for heavy grinding, not a half speed woodworking thing. Different machines, and hard to better a tormek for longevity, but seemingly a little out of balance.
1103 + tax for the system plus gadgets.
Last year, I bought a taiwanese (not chinese) industrial jet wheel grinder and a 4800 foot a minute contact wheel and platen belt grinder attachment for $700. Industrial meaning it's about 1350 watts and high speed meant for heavy grinding, not a half speed woodworking thing. Different machines, and hard to better a tormek for longevity, but seemingly a little out of balance.
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
I was only using the T8 as an example ($1132Cad at the moment for the machine without attachments) as it was a quick and easy comparison between countries. Some of the hand tools like the various Sloyd knives are more to my liking and the shipping should be decent should I succumb to the tool lust.
As to the New Router Plane it does seem to be a product presented purely to sell and not fill a need especially when you take into account the number of other "exciting new tools coming" that were plugged. I'll stay with the Veritas I already have, even though it doesn't get a lot of use.
Pete
As to the New Router Plane it does seem to be a product presented purely to sell and not fill a need especially when you take into account the number of other "exciting new tools coming" that were plugged. I'll stay with the Veritas I already have, even though it doesn't get a lot of use.
Pete
That would've been entirely out of character, Tom....
The pic I included was actually #2. My first attempt was just to see how it went. I used a somewhat clumsy two-screw clamp (Derek used a hardware store hook for his). This is #1 :
When this one worked so well, I decided to make the neater, single-screw clamp version, so the "production model" I showed soon followed.
I gave the "prototype" to a young friend, who used it for a while, but being a young fella, he felt a bit lost without a screw adjuster, so he set me a challenge to build one with an adjuster. Actually we put our heads together & the adjuster design was very much a collaborative effort (but you can see the persistent DNA):
He wrote up our efforts in a quite amusing post for the Ubeaut forum...
The adjuster works well enough (nothing worse than a screw adjuster that doesn't!), but tbh, it doesn't make a huge difference to convenience imo, and makes the thing a bit 'top-heavy'. It's not a major difference & you soon get used to the difference, but it's one of the reasons I reckon basic & simple are good...
Cheers,
Ian
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Not low on teeth, G.S., it comes from the fact that in old animals (including human animals ), the incisor (front) teeth tend to collapse outward reminiscent of the "tooth" part of a router blade...
It's far less common thing to see in people now thanks to better diet, better oral hygiene & modern dentistry (probably in that order!), but not that uncommon in the veterinary world.
And the reason for the gender bias is simple - women tended to live far longer than men & thus more likely to develop such age-related conditions.....
Cheers,
G S Haydon
Established Member
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Nicely done, Ian. Great router and you've explained perfect why it's known as an OWT! Bravo Sir!
I was hoping we could call them Gummy Joes
I was hoping we could call them Gummy Joes
The one thing that stands out with this is that it can cut square corners unlike a router, it is also nice enough to be used as an ornament unlike a router and yes everyone to there own but surely a router is the modern version of this tool, just like we use GPS and not the sextant for navigation which by the way can also be a thing of beauty. I suppose what we are seeing is the cosmetic aspect of tools being dumped in favor of plastic and die casting to reduce cost, something that is echoed everywhere these days because no one has the time or can be bothered to deliver the finesse.
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Not really. They can only cut into a square corner already made by other means. They are only for cleaning up bottoms of, not for forming rebates etc.
I've only ever used one for cleaning bottom of oil stone boxes hacked out with morticer or chisels.
They are fairly useless.
If I needed one I'd look at the Paul Sellers DIY version where he clamps an ordinary chisel into a block of wood.
Brilliant! Then spend the money you've saved on something really useful!
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Even further than that, I think the new way to do things that would've been done by hand is design every part to be made by CNC. it's not a matter of whether or not the maker can be bothered, it's that they no longer have the capability.
We get tools made with parts held together by screws, plain castings with no floral element, small parts that used to be cast are replaced by CNC bits, often free machining brass or worse - aluminum, to cut costs, and anodized aluminum. So red and black anodized aluminum is everywhere - and with bridge city, you can get a pretty big array of colors.
I kind of see any black aluminum accessory on the chinese sites as copied from LV and red copied from woodpeckers.
When you look for anything from luban or harvey or whoever else and find it on alibaba, I think the price is artificially inflated to protect the retailers - like woodcraft, etc. When you find machined high speed steel irons and other such things that aren't sold and branded in the US, the cost is a fraction.
At one point, that wasn't the case, and I found butt chisels that woodcraft was selling for $60-$80 for $16 a set on alibaba, which isn't a surprise. And I posted them....
......and then suddenly those listings changed!
At any rate, I think legitimately if I didn't have a day job, the evaporation of hand work in tools would create a niche market where I could make a reasonable living forging and grinding and hand finishing tools. Like in the $30-$40 an hour range, which seems odd to me.
The flip side of all of this is guys like Tony Z on here can make good quality metal parts for the innards of power tools that would've otherwise been changed to nylon - but do it with long wearing or self lubricating powder metal parts, and really cut back on the machining without having to resort to soft metal or plastic. That part is good.
