Need some advice on jointer planes

[Ttrees]

I was expecting to find some lemons on the Tooltique website which you suggested Mr Tasky
But not so, nice thick castings
About twice the price of ebay, buy it now listings, but nice detailed piccys to make up for that.

I do seem to go on, and on, about a trustworthy flat reference surface like suggested for working on, but hey, what can you do
Some folk like having a bench that they can chew up, others treat theirs with much care because its the most valuable tool in the workshop for their work.

Tom

 

[MikeG.]

........I do seem to go on, and on, about a trustworthy flat reference surface like suggested for working on........

Yes, you do. We're in a thread by a complete novice to hand tools, and whittering on about your highly individual approach to planing is guaranteed to do one thing, and one thing only: put people off planing. You unnecessarily complicate a simple process, you introduce controversy where there is none, and you disregard the actual question being asked. This obsession of yours is seriously unhelpful, and I haven't the slightest doubt that it reduces the number of people who might otherwise be tempted to give hand-planing a try.

Oh, and as an aside, a fire door is not a fire door because of its solid-core construction. There are plenty of non-fire doors with exactly the same core. Fire doors are thus because of the closers and intumescent (and smoke) strips fitted to them, as well as their signage and the quality of any glazing, and their fitting. There is no inherent difference between a door core and a kitchen worktop, and we all know how un-flat the latter can be if stored incorrectly. The fact that you happened to find a flat fire door doesn't in any way mean that any other fire door has any sort of guarantee of flatness. In fact, it is nothing other than pure luck if you get a flat one. If you must prattle on about pointless reference surfaces, at least see if you can be accurate with your advice.

 

[D_W]

A bit harsh, don't you think?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

No.

 

[siggy_7]

Wow, a lot of advice is appearing - thanks all.

MusicMan - that glue line looks great, I would definitely be happy to achieve that level of precision. I think I shall be following the advice of a few people here and recognising my inexperience use a router to achieve straightness for this job.

Derek - interesting to note the use of fences on jointer planes, I presume these are add-ons to planes specifically built with the fixings to accommodate them? That you suggest using a plane with one as "foolproof" implies to me that the skill here is mainly to be able to hold the plane square to the edge whilst planing, have I got that right for future reference when I tackle edge jointing by hand?

Tasky - I didn't even realise that professionally set-up and restored second hand tools existed commercially for sale, so thanks. I'll definitely be looking to the likes of these sites in the future. I presume like anything there are reputable and less reputable ones?

To those who have been discussing the work-holding surface, I can see this has relevance for flattening the face of a board, but for the edge of a wide board which would be clamped vertically anyway I presume there is such stiffness in the wood that the only relevant thing is to make sure it is held securely? I don't see how the clamping surface would affect the shape of the board, unless it is very tightly clamped to a wonky bench front such that it bows the material (for my 40mm worktop, unlikely).

 

[Tasky]

I was expecting to find some lemons on the Tooltique website which you suggested Mr Tasky But not so, nice thick castings About twice the price of ebay, buy it now listings, but nice detailed piccys to make up for that.

The price reflects the level of restoration and the fact that you don't have to trawl eBay looking at blurry pics and risking either losing a bid for a perfect tool, or blowing a fair bit of money on something that might still turn out to be complete cack. Their pricing is consistent, too.
It's perfect for Newbies.

I do seem to go on, and on, about a trustworthy flat reference surface like suggested for working on, but hey, what can you do

Seem?
Over 30 times you've brought this up, several in conversation with me - Not once have I found anything like a fire door (perfectly flat and intact, or otherwise) just sat around in a skip, nor have I ever known of any commercial properties, pubs or shops that are being renovated and have refuse available to root through... Reading isn't exactly a small, stangnant town centre, either.

Some folk like having a bench that they can chew up, others treat theirs with much care because its the most valuable tool in the workshop for their work.

But most seem capable of flattening those bench tops and work tables sufficiently to permit bench planing...

A bit harsh, don't you think?

Given how often I've heard the fire door thing... I'd say that was pretty calm and polite, if rather forthright.

That you suggest using a plane with one as "foolproof" implies to me that the skill here is mainly to be able to hold the plane square to the edge whilst planing, have I got that right for future reference when I tackle edge jointing by hand?

That's part of it, yes.
Note that a fence on the side of a jointing plane will still have the same potential issues as the fence on the side of a plough/combination plane... namely that you'll have to ensure the fence is parallel and square to the plane.

I presume like anything there are reputable and less reputable ones?

Well, they're restored and good to go, but like any plane you'll have to do the final sharpen/hone and setting the cap iron/depth/alignment yourself.

The others are not so much about reputation, as simply the price and the stock levels.
For example - Places like oldtoolstore.co.uk are probably as good, but they're usually low on stock.
There's a lovely tool shop in Bristol, but they don't do online sales.
There's a lovely antiques shop near me, who feature small consignments from a local tool restorer... and his stuff is very good for fantastic prices, but his stock levels are highly variable.

I don't see how the clamping surface would affect the shape of the board, unless it is very tightly clamped to a wonky bench front such that it bows the material (for my 40mm worktop, unlikely).

If the bench is wonky and the vice is not mounted square, the wood will not be held dead upright and you could potentially plane the edge out of square... or something like that. I'm working out in my old garage, where the floor is so pitted and knackered, it's a miracle my bench doesn't rock!

 

[MusicMan]

Note that a fence on the side of a jointing plane will still have the same potential issues as the fence on the side of a plough/combination plane... namely that you'll have to ensure the fence is parallel and square to the plane.

To be a bit pedantic here, (a) it does not have to be parallel for edging (unlike ploughing). If it is out of parallel you just get a slight skew cut. (b) the fence has to be square to the blade, not to the plane itself. Which leaves room for a bit of adjustment.

Keith

 

[Ttrees]

Don't know how you guys expect someone inexperienced to go laminating otherwise, from the get go, in around ten days without matching every piece individually for a kitchen worktop.
That sounds like frustration with some errors that would be off putting I reckon, as water would penetrate.

Or manage to flatten a wide surface like at least a section of a bench to a good enough tolerance to use for reference, as plenty of benches I've seen are hacked so much, it would be so thin after planing, that the whole bench top would need a new laminate.

Any flat surface will do, not just fire doors, sorry if my terminology is wrong, but I suspect most folk aren't as learned in composite door construction.
They usually say "keep closed"
I haven't managed to find an out of flat composite door though, maybe I'm just spoilt, know where to look, or lucky, but I see them all the time, and have enough, they get cast aside for the iroko ones.

I don't see where was I unhelpful in plane choosing opinions?
Or see having a flat surface as controversial in any way.

Tom

 

[Phil Pascoe]

But he's not laminating every individual piece, is he? :? He's just jointing two tops lengthwise.

 

[MikeG.]

But he's not laminating every individual piece, is he? :? He's just jointing two tops lengthwise.

Exactly. For centuries people have somehow managed to edge-joint two boards without the use of fire-doors.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

... Derek - interesting to note the use of fences on jointer planes, I presume these are add-ons to planes specifically built with the fixings to accommodate them? That you suggest using a plane with one as "foolproof" implies to me that the skill here is mainly to be able to hold the plane square to the edge whilst planing, have I got that right for future reference when I tackle edge jointing by hand?...

Siggy, yes, the fences are capable of making this a simple process. The only requirements are that the fence is parallel to the side of the plane, square to the work piece (same thing) and that the blade is set square in the plane (obviously). I suggest a straight blade (not a cambered blade).

The other recommendation with this is a long plane, that is a #7 jointer and not a shorter #5 1/2 or smaller. The length ensures that the surface is flat. The fence ensures that the surface is square.

This is a set up for those starting out with minimal plane time. But it is also a set up for those who want perfect results without the fuss or without claiming to be an Internet hero. With time, one does develop a sense of vertical, and then a fence is unnecessary. Until then, the important issue is the result you get.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Tasky]

Exactly. For centuries people have somehow managed to edge-joint two boards without the use of fire-doors.

Yes, but clearly they all ended up being burned at the stake or ducked on a stool!! :lol:

 

[memzey]

... Derek - interesting to note the use of fences on jointer planes, I presume these are add-ons to planes specifically built with the fixings to accommodate them? That you suggest using a plane with one as "foolproof" implies to me that the skill here is mainly to be able to hold the plane square to the edge whilst planing, have I got that right for future reference when I tackle edge jointing by hand?...

Siggy, yes, the fences are capable of making this a simple process. The only requirements are that the fence is parallel to the side of the plane, square to the work piece (same thing) and that the blade is set square in the plane (obviously). I suggest a straight blade (not a cambered blade).

The other recommendation with this is a long plane, that is a #7 jointer and not a shorter #5 1/2 or smaller. The length ensures that the surface is flat. The fence ensures that the surface is square.

This is a set up for those starting out with minimal plane time. But it is also a set up for those who want perfect results without the fuss or without claiming to be an Internet hero. With time, one does develop a sense of vertical, and then a fence is unnecessary. Until then, the important issue is the result you get.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I’ve got a Stanley #386 as well although I haven’t used it to joint an edge in a long time - basically since I taught myself how to do it free hand. Now I find it most useful for planing a non-square edge, like on a long bevel or for joints that are not meant to be square. It saves on having to recalibrate the fence on my planer thicknesser which I like to keep at 90* at all times.

 

[heimlaga]

I have hand planed quite a bit. Mostly before I started buying machines to speed up work.
Hand planing a joint like that isn't easy for a beginner. I have done it but it wasn't easy and required some training.

If this is just a one time job I think you should ask around if anyone has a reasonably large planer and is willing to do the job for you. I have found that I can edge joint lenghts up to 3 metres very accurately on my 600 mm planer/thicknesser with 2,4 metre long planer tables.