Narex 'Start' Carving Chisel Set

[MarkDennehy]

Was looking at this set on workshop heaven recently and wondering what people who've used them in anger think of them as a starter's kit - worth the money or better to just buy individual tools off ebay for less?

 

[Biliphuster]

I am very much a beginning carver, but I wouldn't go for that set. The tools you pick up off ebay (go for well known ones like Addis, Matheison, Henry Taylor) are likely to be as good or better steel and the full size shapes will be much more useful and amenable to learning proper carving.

Don't worry about cleaning up old carving tools by the way, much easier than old chisels because there is no huge back to flatten, just work the bevel and the front part of the inside of the flute and you are good to go. Chris Pye even recommends adding a tiny back bevel on the inside of the flute which can help get you below any corrosion or pitting. He also says it let's you use the tool upside down although I have not found that necessary.

WHat sort of carving do you want to do by the way? This may affect your choice of tools.

 

[bugbear]

Sets get you a lower price per chisel, but not always a lower price per chisel you end up using.

There's no such thing as a "universal set" since the requirments of the different types of carving vary so much.

BugBear

 

[monkeybiter]

Are you new to carving and want to try it out or do you have a particular project or carving style in mind?
This should have a big influence on any good advice.

The set you've linked to does look comparatively good value as a starter kit, but if you did like carving I doubt if you continue to use any of the tools for long.

I started with a set almost identical to this http://www.axminster.co.uk/henry-ta...Aba46s8-cFPKYbyHOZIs0Bq9Vn7EscT1u5RoCTIbw_wcB bought second hand from a member of this forum, I've added a few since then, but still use them regularly.

Buying individual bargains as and when they crop up is definitely a good way to expand your set of tools once you know what you want, but it could take you a long time and more money to find out it's not for you.

Bear in mind you will also need sharpening and honing gear but that can be very cheap, two or three grades of wet-and-dry to recover a dull/worn edge, Solvol Autosol polishing compound on a shaped piece of wood or mdf for regular/frequent honing to keep the edge keen.

 

[MarkDennehy]

Are you new to carving and want to try it out or do you have a particular project or carving style in mind?

WHat sort of carving do you want to do by the way? This may affect your choice of tools.

So new I haven't done any yet unless slipping while chopping a mortice counts as artistic flair.
And as to what kind, I'm at the "I'll have a flat panel of walnut that I'd like to have some decoration on" stage, or "messing about" as it's more commonly called. This is strictly hobby-level stuff, just trying to put some lipstick on a pig of a project that would be given as a gift to someone who knows what house to throw rocks at if it looked the part of an abominable piece of rubbish. Some stringing with holly in a nice simple geometric pattern would do nicely (except that veritas want more than a hundred euro for a fancy version of a compass being abused as a scratch stock!) or some sort of geometric carving ala Peter and the box only more skill-free, was what I was thinking of making a dogs breakfast of (and I'd like to get to the stage where I could do* some incredibly simple circle-type pattern by around about xmas-ish).

* and when I say "do" I of course mean it in the sense of "do badly, like a blind scout with a dull hatchet"

 

[ED65]

In case you didn't spot them Mark, Lidl currently have in a much more complete set of carving chisels. It's quite a common larger boxed set available from many Chinese sellers and from what I've read the steel matches the general standard of the bench chisels Lidl and Aldi sell, so definitely worth a punt at the price. Only reason I didn't get them myself is I already have a cheap 6pc set that I fettled into working shape and that's good enough for the "still messing about" stage :-D

This is strictly hobby-level stuff, just trying to put some lipstick on a pig of a project that would be given as a gift to someone who knows what house to throw rocks at if it looked the part of an abominable piece of rubbish.

If you want to throw absolutely no money at the problem had you thought about doing some very simple chip carving? It's the kind of detail that adds a lot of perceived value for relatively little effort, and frankly it's much easier to do! It has the advantage that it can be done with ad hoc tools if need be, or with one or two of the basic styles of chip-carving knife that you could knock together in an evening.

 

[MarkDennehy]

They didn't have any when I was in there last weekend in our local lidl ED, I'll have to take a look again this weekend. And I thought about chip carving, but then I watched David Bull for a while and now I'd be too embarressed to try
Honestly, the kind of thing I'm thinking of is just simple geometrical patterns; something like this:

That's just four circles, so it should be simple, right?

 

[ED65]

They didn't have any when I was in there last weekend in our local lidl ED, I'll have to take a look again this weekend.

One I was in at the start of the weekend I swear they had a dozen.

The F-clamps on the other hand, no chance of those! I bet most branches sold out of them before lunch on Thursday.

That's just four circles, so it should be simple, right?

Yeah, um, like how hard can it be? (homer)

(Very much harder than it looks I know is the answer.)

 

[MarkDennehy]

Managed a set of the F-clamps, ironically. (Which aren't all that bad for 9 euros).

 

[bugbear]

or some sort of geometric carving ala Peter and the box only more skill-free, was what I was thinking of making a dogs breakfast of (and I'd like to get to the stage where I could do* some incredibly simple circle-type pattern by around about xmas-ish).

I think you just defined chip carving.

Some people have indeed developed elaborated versions and have God like skills at it, but the traditional variant remains a simple decorative technique.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/247214240/ ... hip-carved

BugBear

 

[ED65]

Managed a set of the F-clamps, ironically. (Which aren't all that bad for 9 euros).

They seem as good or better than the ones on sale in McQuillans for triple the money. Early days yet of course, we'll see how they fare in the long term but the DIN rating is a decent assurance. I expect the one thing that won't last is the composite handle, which thankfully is the part that's easy to replace.

 

[MarkDennehy]

I think everything in McQuillans is at triple the cost elsewhere these days ED. You can order a bandsaw off axminister that's better quality, have it delivered, and still pay less than you would on a lower quality model off them.

Bugbear, that's a beautiful piece of work but waaaaaaaaay outside my skill level

 

[bugbear]

Bugbear, that's a beautiful piece of work but waaaaaaaaay outside my skill level

It's really just the repeated application of a very small number of simple cuts.

Check out a coupla' videos.

If you don't think you can even manage to learn chip carving, why are you looking at carving chisels? "normal" carving is
less repetitive and needs a wider variety of techniques and skills than chip carving.

BugBear

 

[MarkDennehy]

If you don't think you can even manage to learn chip carving, why are you looking at carving chisels? "normal" carving is
less repetitive and needs a wider variety of techniques and skills than chip carving.

What I'd seen (in that linked Peter and the box episode above) was someone laying out a simple geometric pattern, then belting a gouge of the same sweep as the circle's radius into the pencil line, and it seemed (and was described) as a being a process designed to be fast rather than skillful. I'm not sure if that counts as "normal" carving, but I thought "If I had a few gouges, that would let me do some nearly-circles, and if I had a v-tool, that'd let me do almost-straight lines and that'd be enough to be going on". Pretty sure I'm dead wrong on that, but I figured I'd ask people who'd know
I'll take your advice and have a look at some chip carving videos over the weekend.

 

[bugbear]

'V' tools are particularly tricksy...

They're notoriously difficult to sharpen (as evidenced by the number of people claiming to have a method to make it easy ).

Worse, whenever one side of the V is going with the grain, the other side of the V must be going against the grain.

Letter carving, which you might think is done by simply pushing a 'V' round the appropriate line, is ... not done like that at all.

BugBear

 

[monkeybiter]

belting a gouge of the same sweep as the circle's radius into the pencil line,..... I thought "If I had a few gouges, that would let me do some nearly-circles, and if I had a v-tool, that'd let me do almost-straight lines and that'd be enough to be going on".

I think you're on the road to selecting your tools, you've identified the type of carving you'd like to have a go at and how to spec. the right gouge for the job.
You could select a pattern to determine the sweep required then look for the correct gouge and v tool, you could do a lot worse [some cheap sets are worse than useless, DAMHIK]
The limitation is of course that when you carve different curves you may require different sweep/width gouges, but if you pick your first design carefully, you should know by then if you want to stick with it and expand your set or not.
If you're careful picking your design and select matching tools you could produce a box panel like Folansbee with just a couple of new gouges.
Just don't start on Oak, it could well put you off.

 

[MarkDennehy]

Letter carving, which you might think is done by simply pushing a 'V' round the appropriate line, is ... not done like that at all.

I am experiencing a new and unprecedented level of shock at the universe's sudden but inevitable betrayal

So, is there any totally guaranteed, utterly skill-free way to add decorative eye-catching elements to a panel of walnut that catches the eye and drags it kicking and screaming away from cack-handed, sawdust-stuffed gappy joinery?

(Other than sticking fifty euro notes to the middle of the panel, that is)

Am I barking up an even taller wronger tree looking at the idea of holly stringing in a walnut panel?

 

[bugbear]

So, is there any totally guaranteed, utterly skill-free way to add decorative eye-catching elements to a panel of walnut that catches the eye and drags it kicking and screaming away from cack-handed, sawdust-stuffed gappy joinery?

Probably paint or dye/stain applied via a stencil.

Sorry, but you did ask.

BugBear

 

[custard]

Am I barking up an even taller wronger tree looking at the idea of holly stringing in a walnut panel?

That's an interesting question, I'd argue that basic stringing and inlay work is much easier than letter carving. Couple of things to bear in mind,

-Forget using Holly, you'll really struggle to get anything decent in the UK. Timber yards are perennial fibbers on this subject, they always say their Holly is white and clean, but you drive 200 miles to see it and find it's turned gnarly and shot through with blue/green/grey streaks. Instead look for some straight grained, bright white Sycamore, some yards call this "Arctic Sycamore".

-Stringing along the grain is easy, stringing for more than a few inches across the grain on solid wood is hard as you need to cut cross grain inlay, and compared to doing that basic letter carving is a breeze. So best to stick to stringing along legs or around veneered panels.

-You can make a stringing scratch stock easily enough, or Veritas sell a little inlay tool that looks like a marking knife, it's not expensive and it works very well for cutting grooves around MDF curved templates, sometimes I route grooves down to 1mm or even less. All these methods work well enough after just a bit of practise.

Good luck!