My saws (Warning: stupid question!)

[alan2001]

Avert your eyes now if you don't like *extremely* basic questions, please. :roll:

Here are my three saws:

In order:

12" JCB tenon saw, 12tpi
15" Stanley FatMax 'Fine Finish', 11tpi
22" Stanley 'Jet Cut', 7tpi

Am I right in thinking that these are all CROSSCUT saws?

6 months ago, a saw was a saw was a saw. Now I know that there are different types, and I'm guessing that none of these is a rip saw, right? Thanks in advance.


p.s. the top two were bought by myself this year, the bottom one (rusty as hell) was a gift from my brother.

 

[Max Power]

already answered your own question yes crosscuts

 

[Richard T]

Yup, they're all cross cut; hardened teeth so unsharpenable. Disposable in other words.

Rip saws have their teeth cut straight across - like a line of chisels - shaving away with the grain.

 

[alan2001]

Thanks guys. Believe it or not, I did actually attempt some research on this beforehand, but my results were inconclusive or ambiguous.

Disposable in other words

How very diplomatic of you, kind sir. :mrgreen:

 

[DTR]

Disposable in other words

How very diplomatic of you, kind sir. :mrgreen:

He means it literally. Once the teeth are blunt they cannot be resharpened, all you can do is bin it and buy another one.

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Alan,

Here's some links that might help:

Saw sharpening instructions
Saw sharpening video 1
Saw sharpening video 2
Saw sharpening video 3

You can't resharpen the hardpoints, but at least this will give you an idea of what rake, fleam and slope angles do. For pitch (teeth per inch) a good rule of thumb for general work is that you want between 3 and 12 teeth engaged in the timber at any given moment, so your tenon saw for example is suitable for cutting across the grain in timber from 1/4" to 1" thick but will be happiest on 5/8" thick stuff. For cabinetmaking, where finish is the primary concern, think about using the top half of that spectrum (5/8" to 1") with really sharp teeth you can even go a bit thicker.

I was thinking just this morning how so much attention is focussed on sharpening planes and chisels and barely anyone mentions the far more interesting world of saw sharpening.

 

[Pete W]

all you can do is bin it and buy another one.

Usually only the teeth are hardened, so you can cut up the rest of the blade for scrapers, scratchstock blanks, etc. As for buying another one, better still to buy a better saw, one that can be resharpened and will last a lifetime.

Hardpoint saws have their place - I have a couple, reserved for cutting plywood, chipboard and other necessary evils, and they don't see a lot of use. But constantly buying tools to throw away seems pretty foolish (and slightly immoral, somehow).

 

[Fat ferret]

Hardpoint saws have their place - I have a couple, reserved for cutting plywood, chipboard and other necessary evils, and they don't see a lot of use. But constantly buying tools to throw away seems pretty foolish (and slightly immoral, somehow).[/quote]

I agree, why throw away the whole saw when you could just spend half an hour resharpening the first one, got to be better, and cheaper too. I used to buy the stanley fatmax tenon saws for £15 a time, and needed a new one every 6 months. Now I have a beautiful old tenon saw that will see me out and it cost the same amount. Also sharpening, once you have got the hang of it only needs done every once in a while unlike planes and chisels which need resharpening quite often.

 

[alan2001]

Yup, they're all cross cut; hardened teeth so unsharpenable.

Well, I didn't know this, I must admit I assumed you meant they were rubbish! Which they probably are, but at least now I understand why. However, they're probably 'good enough' for my purposes for the time being.

I'll start watching out for better quality saws at car boot sales in future. Now the question is: how can you tell if a saw *is* sharpenable?

Thanks for those links, Matthew, very useful.

 

[Racers]

Hi,

If the teeth are black its un-sharpenable, unless you cut the teeth off and file new ones in the un-hardened part of the plate, its some thing I have been planning to do for a while, but you will still be left with an nasty handle.
Hardpoint saws make good cabinet scrapers you can get loads out of one saw.

Pete

 

[pedder]

Hi,

first of all, you can sharpen hardened teeth. Two ways:

- use a diamond file or
- soften the teeth in the oven at 300° (until blue)

The softened teeth probably won't hold an edge very long, because the steel is most probably not the same as in the unhardened saws.

How to tell if the saw is sharpenable without that treatment? You can allways test the saw with a file. Or look for old saws. The hardening thing is young.

Two month ago I would have told you, you have to look after the black spots. If you can see them, the saw is hardened. But if you can't see them, the saw can be hardened allthough. The black spot will vanish with rust and rustsolvent. I killed a good file to learn that.

Cheers Pedder

 

[alan2001]

first of all, you can sharpen hardened teeth. Two ways:

- use a diamond file or
- soften the teeth in the oven at 300° (until blue)

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but I'm guessing a side benefit of that would be the 'removal' of the nasty plastic handles, albeit in a manner disapproved of by the wife! (Only the 15" one has screws on it to remove the handle; the other two appear to be moulded on permanently.)

That fact alone helps me realise even more just how disposable they are. I've learnt a lot here, so thanks everyone.

I've always loved the look of those wooden handled saws, and needless to say they are very much on my ebay/car boot radar now. :mrgreen:

 

[studders]

Hi,

first of all, you can sharpen hardened teeth. Two ways:

- use a diamond file

Cheers Pedder

Seconded. All my saws that I use for MDF and the like are hardpoint and I've resharpened them all using a cheapie Diamond Needle file set from Toolstation; they cut better now than when they were new.

 

[Sawyer]

Once they are blunt, I'd recommend replacing them with good quality resharpenable saws, and learn about sharpening. It's cheaper in the long run. As Matthew says, saw sharpening is a very interesting subject in its own right. A good saw, well sharpened turns hand sawing into a real pleasure, whereas I dislike the look and feel of disposable saws (even though, as has been pointed out, they do have their place: ie. near walls, nails &c.).
Buying quality saws is also a good way to help the Sheffield tool trade, as you have a good choice of high quality British products.

 

[barkwindjammer]

Can also be used to enchant your neighbours of a sunday morn
http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... .html#a342

 

[pedder]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but I'm guessing a side benefit of that would be the 'removal' of the nasty plastic handles, albeit in a manner disapproved of by the wife! (Only the 15" one has screws on it to remove the handle; the other two appear to be moulded on permanently.)

Use a heat gun then.

Cheers
Pedder