My first "Norris" plane - help needed please

[rob1713]

Good evening
I thought I'd share some pics of a plane I bought today, it's marked up with the magic name of Norris. Unfortunately this Mr Norris definitely owned the plane but he probably didn't make it.
I've never seen a plane like this before and to my untutored eyes it looks to be user made as the finish is a little crude and I can find no makers marks. ( so maybe it is a Norris made plane ! ) it has a few issues, cracks in the casting, and a missing wedge. It has a strange gunmetal swinging arm that grips a 2 piece iron when a wedge (missing) is inserted. It is fitted with a Ward iron.
I'm guessing it is a jack plane but the sole has the look of some of the mitre shooting planes I have seen. Not sure what the wood the infill is made from, possibly mahogany, though the handle looks to be made from beech
Can anyone help identify the lineage of this plane, I plan to give it a sympathetic restoration and am keen to know what the original wedge would have looked like.
Regards
Rob

 

[Orraloon]

Cant say I've ever seen one quite like that. Does have the look of a converted or home built about it. It does look about jack plane size but the lack of camber in the blade suggests it was used for finer work. Going by the pics I only saw a small crack at the back end that should not stop it being a good user. As to wedge shape I guess whatever you like the look of. Lower end of the gun metal holding plate will be guide to lower part of wedge. Angle of wedge not critical as the hinged plate will follow it. All up a good find. I'll be looking forward to seeing some shavings come out of it when you get it working.
Regards
John

 

[D_W]

I'm going to speculate:
* a very early casting, I say very early because it's got a rotating strap for a wedge, and the handle style at the front is not typical of later planes. Mid 1800s would be my guess, I don't know how far back casted planes go, but I think that one goes about as far back as that would be.
* the orientation of the handle and the mouth is a little different for a plane of that length (the mouth is back further, and then because of that, so is the handle)

I would make a wedge with a scroll, just look on google image for "wedged infill plane" and see a couple that have that type of strap, and that were for sale somewhere such that the seller removed the wedge to show it. Then you can get an idea of what the fingers look like, etc.

I'd use beech for the wedge, nothing harder, and preferably nothing softer.

Wouldn't be surprised if it's a very good working plane without much work, but you will also probably find it somewhat nose heavy because of the location of the mouth and handle. And that won't be a big deal if it works well.

 

[rob1713]

Thanks for the input chaps, unfortunately it won't a straight forward job to get this plane working, the back end of the casting has some severe cracks in it and signs of a previous brazing repair, so tapping it to adjust the iron may be risky, the tapping stud on the front infill doesn't sound to solid if you adjust the iron back using it.
We all know problems come in 3's and problem number 3 has me a little confused.
The 2 piece iron that came with the plane does not quite clear the front of the plane mouth. So I need to either find a thinner iron or file open the front of the mouth slightly. None of the many spare irons I have are thinner than the ward iron that came with it and I can't recall seeing a 2 piece iron that is significantly thinner.
Hmmmmm,

 

[AndyT]

You've not shown an end view with the cracks in the casting, so this might not work, but here's a suggestion.
Some planes - bullnose planes in particular - have a stud at the back where you tap for adjustments. It's also common on German smoothers. So if you can manage to drill a tidy hole into the infill, you could insert something which connects the hammer taps to the body without stressing the casting.

The something could be a standard coach screw or a bolt, or something modified from one, eg by rounding off a hex head. It could be epoxied into place. This might solve the adjustment problem.

As for the iron, there's no guarantee that what you have is original - it could just be the nearest that the previous seller had.

Maybe it needs a parallel iron, not a tapered one. These used to be dearer and so rarer. There are some dealers with new old stock which might work, or else a modern iron from Ray Iles might suit?

I'm assuming you want this as a plane for use.

 

[D_W]

I think you could file the mouth if the front is close, epoxy the loose infill, and the rear one if you can get it out - to add stability to the whole setup, including the cracks. If the cracks are that unstable, you have the choice to braze them or just set the whole thing aside.

In lieu of filing the mouth, of course, you could just wait until the rest is stable, and if you can get it to be, go to market for a thinner iron, or just make one.

 

[rob1713]

I do want to return this plane to use so I am going to have to be careful how I proceed.
I have attached a pic of the damaged end of the plane showing the spiders web of cracks which will need some severe stabilising. I like Andys idea of fitting a stud through the rear plate to absorb some of the impact with the infill, though need to convince myself that the 4 screws in the side of the casting holding the rear infill in place are up to the task of keeping it firmly seated in place when subjected to a direct impact.
Do you think it will be possible to deal with this damage by welding/brazing a new plate to the two sides of the casting by either overplating it or cutting it out altogether?
I may have to resort to the use of epoxy and filing the mouth open but I'd like to check out the cost and practicality of a more permanent fix to the casting first.
Whatever method I decide on will require the removal of the 2 infills to deal with the rear damage and the untidy repair to the front infill. I will however take your advice and keep an eye out for a period parallel iron of about 3mm thickness. ( Luckilly Ray Iles does make a new iron of this thickness if I have no luck)
Thanks again for your helpful comments.
Rob

 

[rob1713]

I decided to remove the infills last night, I'm not sure what I was expecting to find as I've never delved into the inner workings of an infill plane before. I certainly never expected to find this :shock:

 

[rob1713]

It has an adjustable bed for moving the iron backwards or forward operated by 2 screws on the back which I thought had been added to stabilise the cracks #-o
There is no sign of a makers stamp, the back infill looks good but the front one will need a lot of work or replacing.
I can't find any mechanism similar to this on the net can anyone here shed some light on the heritage of this plane ?

 

[AndyT]

Well, I wasn't expecting that!

How very ingenious. One of the pleasures/frustrations of old infill planes is that alongside the named, commercial offerings, castings were available to end users who, being skilled at woodworking, finished the wooden parts to their own tastes, ideas and innovations. So there's very little secondary information on many planes - just what can be gleaned by studying the planes themselves.
I'd be reluctant to alter that plane - if you don't want to keep it yourself, you might be able to sell it for more than the price of an 'ordinary' user nameless infill.

 

[rob1713]

Your right Andy, this has put paid to any ideas of reinforcing the back. I think I may limit any interventions to the cleaning the inside of the casting, a gentle clean of the externals and possibly try to clamp and glue the front infill. This might mean it becoming to fragile to use which is a shame.
I may look at making a new front infill which can be easily replaced with the original should I ever be cured of my addiction to hoarding old tools and move it on.

 

[AndyT]

Just looking again at your pictures and picking up on your mitre plane comment, I'd like to deepen the mystery by saying that, as far as I know, your plane has a very unusual shape of casting.

Judging by pictures, mitre planes often have the plain, boxy shape of yours, with a straight line, level top. That works ok when the iron is fitted at a low angle, as it is in a mitre plane, but is odd when the plane is at common pitch (45 degrees) which I think yours is. For a common pitch plane, it's normal to make the casting rise up in the middle, so the anchor point for the lever cap can be higher, giving a better clamping effect. In yours, the pivot point for the bar looks to be too low down on the iron for the wedge to grip well. (Maybe that helped it go missing.)

Also, with mitre plane castings, I think it's normal for the front to be square but the back to be rounded, so it is comfortable in use. Another point is that although mitre plane castings have the sole projecting beyond the box, like yours, it normally projects further - yours is reminiscent of some panel plane castings in that detail.

All this rambling is just by way of saying that your plane is seriously unusual, possibly unique, the product of a very inventive craftsman. I don't collect infills and really don't know enough about them to say any more, but if I were you I would want to show it to plenty of better informed collectors.

 

[toolsntat]

Interesting, fancy a ride up to Stanley's next week :wink:
http://www.davidstanley.com
So is it amateur or professional?
Shape of handle and detailing looking professional to me
but it's the sort of thing that needs to be examined closer 8)
I would hold off doing anything to it at this stage.
Cheers
Andy

 

[rob1713]

Unfortunately I won't be able to make it to the auction, but if you want some better photos give me a shout.
Regards
Rob

 

[toolsntat]

Just had a thought regarding this mechanism.
When wedged up and cutting with the bed adjusted back, by moving it forward you would be able to close up the mouth somewhat.
Taking things further would it be too much to consider that in that action the subtle geometry involved (with wedge still acting) could possibly cause the iron to move away/towards the bed line thus enabling extremely fine adjustment of cut.
Above theory based upon the fact that if you drive a wedge (this movable bed) under something it raises the object (this iron).....
Is the bed immediately behind the mouth very thick?
Cheers
Andy

 

[toolsntat]

Also Rob, have you tried the iron back in the plane with this adjustable mechanism wound back, it may clear the mouth?
Cheers
Andy

 

[JohnPW]

It's just guess; this might originally be a mitre plane that's had all its bits removed and then a handle from a trying plane was added to it.

I can't work out how the adjustable bed works, it looks like the top half (with the handle) is screwed to the metal body but the bottom half can slide forwards and backwards?

 

[rob1713]

Just had a thought regarding this mechanism.
When wedged up and cutting with the bed adjusted back, by moving it forward you would be able to close up the mouth somewhat.
Taking things further would it be too much to consider that in that action the subtle geometry involved (with wedge still acting) could possibly cause the iron to move away/towards the bed line thus enabling extremely fine adjustment of cut.
Above theory based upon the fact that if you drive a wedge (this movable bed) under something it raises the object (this iron).....
Is the bed immediately behind the mouth very thick?
Cheers
Andy

I think I understand what you are saying Andy.
I've just put the plane together loosely, the tapered iron still won't fit even with the lower bed wound fully back.
I cut a softwood wedge and fitted a Stanley iron and chip breaker, I then set the iron up to take a fine shaving by tapping it forward, this left a gap of 3mm between blade and mouth opening
Screwing the lower bed forward did have a small effect by lifting the iron up slightly but this was difficult as it was working against the wedge the 3mm gap didn't change appreciably.
I then moved the lower bed forward and packed out the upper part of the bed with 1.5mm Packers so the iron is seated on a fully flat (ish) bed. This closed the mouth closed right up when taking the same depth of shaving.
I wonder if this is how it was designed to be used ?
Using no packers you have a plane that can hog off deep cuts, then for finishing you add a couple of brass packers to the upper bed then screw the lower bed forward to have a very tight mouth. A bit fiddly but whoever made it didn't have to take 2 planes to work I suppose.

 

[rob1713]

It's just guess; this might originally be a mitre plane that's had all its bits removed and then a handle from a trying plane was added to it.

I can't work out how the adjustable bed works, it looks like the top half (with the handle) is screwed to the metal body but the bottom half can slide forwards and backwards?

Basically that is how the mechanism works. I also initially thought it might be a *******ised mitre plane, however the the bed in the casting is set at 45 degrees and I would think mitres are always set at a lower bed angle.

 

[JohnPW]

It's just guess; this might originally be a mitre plane that's had all its bits removed and then a handle from a trying plane was added to it.

I can't work out how the adjustable bed works, it looks like the top half (with the handle) is screwed to the metal body but the bottom half can slide forwards and backwards?

Basically that is how the mechanism works. I also initially thought it might be a *******ised mitre plane, however the the bed in the casting is set at 45 degrees and I would think mitres are always set at a lower bed angle.

I hadn't thought of using shims on the bed!

The mouth might have been widened, and the casting bed filed steeper. On a mitre plane the mouth can be very narrow in an absolute sense because of the bevel up blade.