Might buy an old Viceroy - need help with the spindle size

[LewisM]

I've been attending a turning course for about 6 months and am loving it, but only having access to a lathe for ~6 hours once a week is really holding back how quickly I progress.
I've come into a bit of money so have decided to bite the bullet and buy myself a lathe - I've already got the space, a bandsaw and a set of decent chisels, so once I've got a lathe and a grinder I'm good to go.
I've narrowed it down to either an old Viceroy TDS6 WL, or an almost new Axeminster AWVL 1000.
The TDS6 is the 3 phase model that's got a single phase variable speed converter on it, and as they're both going for about the same amount it's clearly the better choice.

The problem comes from the TDS's non-standard spindle size. Everything I've read online says it's a 1.5" x 8tpi spindle, but when I found the manual it says the following:
"Spindle Bearing; The 1 1/2" diameter 3 M.T. 13/16" bore spindle is made of high tensile steel and is mounted..."
I then looked on Wikipedia, here, but under MT3 there's nothing that matches 1.5". Am I misunderstanding something here?

How hard is it going to be to find converters for the TDS? Much as I really want the variable speed, I appreciate that the AWVL (especially when combining the adjustable pulleys/gears with the speed lever) would tide me over for a couple of years. Am I better off buying the AWVL, or is there somewhere I can just buy a converter for the TDS?

 

[CHJ]

The spindle dimensions you are quoting have nothing to do with the actual spindle nose thread which a Chuck will fit on. (That's the 1.5 X 8 that you quote) just the details of the whole spindle.
The Morse taper is the socket (within the spindle nose) in which you would fit a Drive Centre for turning spindles between centres.

If your information re, 1.5X8 is correct then that is the thread standard you need to match with any new Chuck.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The spindle thread on my Poolewood is 1 1/2" and takes a MT2 - I doubt the Viceroy takes a MT3. Someone with one will be along soon, I expect.

 

[LewisM]

The spindle dimensions you are quoting have nothing to do with the actual spindle nose thread which a Chuck will fit on. (That's the 1.5 X 8 that you quote) just the details of the whole spindle.
The Morse taper is the socket (within the spindle nose) in which you would fit a Drive Centre for turning spindles between centres.

Ahh I see, that makes more sense!
Are you sure 1.5" x 8tpi is standard though? dm-tools and yandles both don't have any that fit, and there's only 1 on Axeminsters site that fits it (the most expensive one). 1" x 8tpi seems much more common, if I could get an adapter to make mine that size I think I'd be ok.

The spindle thread on my Poolewood is 1 1/2" and takes a MT2 - I doubt the Viceroy takes a MT3. Someone with one will be along soon, I expect.

I'm not really sure, I found this manual and this site and they both say it's MT3. From that second site:

Drive to the No. 3 Morse taper spindle (that ran in either Timken taper roller-bearings or deep-groove, grease-packed, sealed-for-life ball races) was by means of a Brammer link belt - today replaced by the easier-to-fit T-link type. The spindle - fitted with a handy lock to ease changes of nose fittings - carried a 1.5-inch diameter by 8 t.p.i. right-hand thread to the right and, to the left for bowl turning, a 1.25-inch by 9 t.p.i. left-hand thread.

So... maybe? Hopefully like you said someone who owns one will be able to give me a definite answer soon - touch wood!!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You could go for an unthreaded ISO backplate and get it machined -
https://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Chucks ... chuck.html
(although they haven't the chucks atm.)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I would take it that the MT is 3, coming from a reputable source. I can't really see the point of a 3 in the head and a 2 in the tail - I wonder why they (any manufacturer) didn' use 2 x 2s or 2 x 3s?

 

[LewisM]

You could go for an unthreaded ISO backplate and get it machined -
https://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Chucks ... chuck.html
(although they haven't the chucks atm.)

I've found an adapter at last! Helps when you know the right terms to Google haha.
A company called Vicmarc makes them, and they've got distributors all round the world. Looks like it's going to cost me about £30 + shipping to get one - not bad!
As I can pretty much choose whatever size I want, is there any advantages to specific ones? Would a 1" x 8tpi be more secure than a 3/4" x 16tpi?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Go for the M33 x 3.5mm. It's becoming universal. Just about everyone has moved away from the 3/4".

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Here's another -
https://www.oliverswoodturning.co.uk/pr ... daptors-2/

Search for spindle exerts as well as spindle adaptors.

 

[LewisM]

Here's another -
https://www.oliverswoodturning.co.uk/pr ... daptors-2/

Search for spindle exerts as well as spindle adaptors.

I did find that one but it says it converts to M38x3, whereas all the chucks I could find are M33x3.5 - I'm not sure how useful that will be if I want to use anything other than the Patriot chucks that adapter is meant for?

 

[Inspector]

You're looking at a heavily built lathe that can handle heavy unbalanced pieces. I would not try to adapt downward to a smaller chuck like a 1x8tpi. You would be limiting yourself. I would contact Oneway and ask them which adaptor to use with one of their Stronghold chucks. If one their three 1 1/2" adaptors doesn't match the Viceroy they will machine one that will. It isn't the cheapest way to go because it is a big chuck but the quality is there. https://oneway.ca/products-category/adaptors You should if you decide to go that route find out if it is a 55 degree Whitworth thread or a 60 degree thread. The shape of the threads are different.

From the pictures on the Lathe site I believe the #3 taper information. Again testifying to the robust quality of the lathe. It even looks like the tailstock is the same. You can use #2 tapered tools in it with a taper adaptor sleeve. They are inexpensive and readily available.

https://oneway.ca/products-category/adaptors

Pete

 

[LewisM]

You're looking at a heavily built lathe that can handle heavy unbalanced pieces. I would not try to adapt downward to a smaller chuck like a 1x8tpi. You would be limiting yourself. I would contact Oneway and ask them which adaptor to use with one of their Stronghold chucks. If one their three 1 1/2" adaptors doesn't match the Viceroy they will machine one that will. It isn't the cheapest way to go because it is a big chuck but the quality is there. https://oneway.ca/products-category/adaptors You should if you decide to go that route find out if it is a 55 degree Whitworth thread or a 60 degree thread. The shape of the threads are different.

This worries me a bit, if the lathe doesn't come apart I'm going to struggle to get it home. I was hoping the worst case scenario would be taking 2 cars, splitting the lathe up into roughly equal parts then taking it home. The manual I found says it's around 300kg - really pushing the weight limit on my car.
I can't find anything online about it coming apart, but surely it must do..?

With regards to the chuck - for the sake of the £30 adapter I'll probably pick up that with a cheaper chuck. It will definitely last me a good while, then when I want to start turning bigger things I can always look into getting parts machined like you mentioned.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Here's another -
https://www.oliverswoodturning.co.uk/pr ... daptors-2/

Search for spindle exerts as well as spindle adaptors.

I did find that one but it says it converts to M38x3, whereas all the chucks I could find are M33x3.5 - I'm not sure how useful that will be if I want to use anything other than the Patriot chucks that adapter is meant for?

Yes, Sorry. I was looking more at the price. :shock: Definitely worth sticking to M33 if you can't get a direct fit.

 

[Inspector]

If it isn't too far what about renting a truck or van for a few hours? Here the rent is a little high when near the end or middle of the month so avoid them. Moving days. I have a pick up truck like half the people here so it wouldn't be a problem. Know anyone with a utility trailer?

Pete

 

[LewisM]

If it isn't too far what about renting a truck or van for a few hours? Here the rent is a little high when near the end or middle of the month so avoid them. Moving days. I have a pick up truck like half the people here so it wouldn't be a problem. Know anyone with a utility trailer?

Pete

I do know a guy with a little van that would fit it, but I don't know if we'd be able to lift it up that far. The manual says it's about 230-250kg, that's a hefty weight :shock:

 

[Inspector]

Ramps, rope, ratchet straps, come alongs. Go all Egyptian on it. Or get another couple guys to help. Four people can easily lift it, one end at a time. Take the tool rests and tailstock off an the motor if it isn't too hard to get at. Mark the wires and take pictures so you know how to hook it up again.

 

[LewisM]

Four people can easily lift it, one end at a time.

That's good to know.
I found a load of pictures of the bowl turning variant in pieces here, so even though I've got a different model I still think mine will come apart similarly. Looks like it's just 2 lots of 4 bolts holding it all together on the BT model, so with a bit of luck the whole thing will come apart for easy loading - no van required!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It didn't/doesn't suit any manufacturer to produce something that couldn't/can't be moved.

 

[LewisM]

It didn't/doesn't suit any manufacturer to produce something that couldn't/can't be moved.

True, it's just whether or not I'll need a small van or someones car.
It's ending in 2 hours and currently has 1 big - hope it doesn't go up too far!

 

[LewisM]

Won it for £226, absolute bargain!!