Men's ( woodwork)shed

[johnnyb]

I'm about to move into a slightly rundown 900sqft unit. My equipment is a bit Mickey mouse for joinery and maybe ok for furniture. The rent isn't restrictive and I'm trying to think creatively about making it pay.
My idea is to run basic "classes" for a nightly fee. What the gist of these will be is obviously open to debate. It's not to start a school but to bridge the gap between a high end school and a men's shed. I was a member of a popular woodcarving club and it was held in a school and was always packed. The machinery was strictly out of bounds and it was hand tools only ( and the odd drill). I found when we introduced group projects ( we all made Windsor chairs!) It went down a storm and years later some of the guys still make windsors. Another project was wooden locks. I know it's just a seed ATM but joinery shops are shutting down Willy nilly. And these are industrial. What do the panel think.please don't concentrate on h and s and insurance in your answers!

 

[doctor Bob]

How good are your skills, if I was being taught I'd want to see the teacher demonstrate and do a good job?

 

[johnnyb]

In many ways my skills are irrelevant. After many years woodworking I've come to the conclusion I really don't like fine furniture. I can't abide dovetails..when I see one they annoys me. Sorry.
The idea is to guide people to achieve simple projects. I saw an episode of some mother's do have em. ... Frank goes to his woodwork class. This was a time when such things were common. I also think my own pleasure of woodwork was multiplied when it was a shared experience. I also know many people who have taken long courses and never do any woodworking again unfortunately. I don't want to teach people I want to enable people to do there own simple projects. The Windsor chairs were amazing. Partly done at the club partly done at home. I had an old yew Windsor we copied.

 

[--Tom--]

If it was outside work hours, had someone to help out, I’d go. Bonus would be to have access to machinery that I don’t have at home.

So many chances to learn are confined to office hours - for pretty good reasons, they’re out of my reach

 

[johnnyb]

I can't really comment on younger people(my age!) But older people are definitely very enthusiastic about woodwork in an organised environment. Frank Spencer made crib that was"only big enough for a sausage roll" btw!

 

[Hornbeam]

There are definitely a shortage of evening type woodwork classes but I agree with doctor Bob that your skills have to be up up to the required standard. That standard is partly dictated by the level that you pitch your classes at and the people who actually attend.
H&S is a whole topic on its own and you have to look into this to make sure you have covered everything as is insurance. There are a couple of forum members who teach who may be able to advise

 

[thetyreman]

I'd say go for it!

 

[johnnyb]

I'm only providing a place not unlike a men's shed. I find it odd that people need to follow what they perceive is a highly skilled teacher. If your final intention is to become a fine furniture maker then trust me a night class is not the way(even for Frank!).youll find a reasonably well defined path starting at one of the full time college courses. I'd even go as far as saying 90% of long paid for courses are not vocational just entertainment.

 

[Trevanion]

I think the lack of evening classes/courses is one of the main reasons hobby woodworking and interest in woodworking in general has really waned in recent years. I know a long time ago there used to be evening classes often in the schools locally involving woodturning, carving etc and a lot of variety of people would show up, these days you would find anything like that for 100 miles. Even in secondary schools, the practical education today pales in comparison to what it was 10+ years ago. These days it's less about "Let's make something interesting and have a bit of fun while doing it" and more of "Explain 99 ways you could make this item and then only pick the one that involves using the CNC machine", of course you're going to put off kids from doing anything practical if they associate woodworking with that a massive wall of paperwork and thinking before you can even look at a tool, let alone use it.

We had a GSCE student on this forum the other day asking:

Hi there I am currently doing research for my GCSE project. I have the challenge of finding and and fixing a problem within the boundaries of smarter living. I decided that a good place to start was finding the areas in workshops that lack in efficiency. After thinking I narrowed it down to the storage and organisation of Allen keys and other items of workshop hardware. I need your views on this problem for example possible ideas, and stakeholder requirements.

I've been doing woodwork professionally for a while now and I don't think I've ever heard of stakeholder requirements, I understand that they're designing a product pretty much as if they were on "The Apprentice" or something but I don't understand what's the point of teaching kids below under 16 stuff they don't really need to know until they go onto further education with a university or college.

If I hadn't been offered to go to college 1 day a week to do Construction and Carpentry alongside schoolwork I definitely wouldn't have gone into Joinery, as my experience from "Design and Technology" in school was enough to put anyone off doing anything practical for the rest of their life.

 

[johnnyb]

I agree a typical old person got bitten by wood at school. Often became engineers and are now in there 80s and been hobby woodworkers since retiring.
I often say the craft is completing the task well with fairly basic equipment. I guess I could make Paul sellers fabled bench in a morning in a well equipped joiners shop to a much better standard than most(and fit the vice correctly!). The enjoyment is the process not the product.(at hobby level)

 

[Sideways]

Whatever your aim, you have to be real about what YOU are trying to do with this.
Is it a charitable / community venture ? Great !
Are you trying to earn some sort of income ? If so, you're probably doomed to failure.
If you're trying to start a club, a lot of your time is likely to be chasing money or donations.
Work it out : rent + utilities + insurance + levy to replace your tool + consumable blades, glue, finishes, sandpaper ...
Divide by however many are likely to turn up / how many weeks a year / how much anyone will pay per week (£ fiver if you're lucky) to attend a "club" as you can't offer professional tuition and pull in anyone beyond the locals.
What you're doing is a men's shed in all but name and they pretty well all rely on charitable support and fundraising.
They are great but it's not a business model that will pay you any income.

 

[AJB Temple]

You are renting the workshop anyway, so that and your tools are pretty much a fixed cost anyway and presumably your day time is spoken for making whatever you make for a living. So the woodwork club is a potential contributor not a business plan in itself, yes?

You haven't got much to lose. Maybe set it up as a club and every member must sign a disclaimer saying they do everything at their own risk and that they understand you are not responsible for their safety - they are. Big sign up saying the same. They are not paying you to teach or supervise and they accept that they must insure themselves if they want to be insured. Don't rely on this to protect you, but do it anyway.

I would charge for club membership. I would sell them wood. I would sell them plans. I would have a tea kitty, and I would charge them on each attendance for consumables. All cash - no credit = no delays. Fixed finish time and everyone helps sweep up. Dangerous machines that need training such as SM out of bounds.

Make them bring eye protection and use it. Have some stock of safety glasses and sell, don't lend.

Don't allow idiots to remain members.

 

[Ali]

Decide if it is a business or a charity.

You will need to market the hell out of it, you will need to think about your target market (e.g. young/middle aged, male/female, hobbyist or someone wanting to become a professional).

You will have to have some public liability insurance and other cover in place, plus start with health and safety induction.

You will need enough equipment and materials for any project, so need space for holding stock and timber too.

I have axminster near me so often see their courses which are popular. They have all the kit and their shtick is to sell machinery too, but also Colin Searle is in Kent and runs router courses, so a good model to follow (http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/trend/con ... s&id=23336). There are some other turners who hold workshops so is possible to turn it into something long term.

 

[johnnyb]

I'd rather given up on this. But a couple of more positive posts and I'm back on board! It is a part time idea but were approaching being well set up. It won't really cost anything just some advertising so why not.
Any more ideas would be taken in board btw

 

[AJB Temple]

If you have any independent wood suppliers or tool shops nearby, see if you can link them in somehow. Bit of sponsorship maybe. Sign in their shop. Offer some of their products for sale.

 

[custard]

I'm guessing there are still plenty of people interested in woodworking, and plenty of people entering the hobby. For evidence I'd say look at the boom in upmarket hand tool manufacturers and niche hobbyist retailers.

But the failure rate seems pretty drastic. For every hundred new hobbyist woodworkers, how many are still active two or three years later? I don't know, but if I had to guess I'd say maybe fifteen or twenty at most.

So why is the drop out rate so high? Again, it's an educated guess but I'd point to a few factors,

-Buying quality hardwood is pretty inconvenient, and will take many new woodworkers well out of their comfort zone.
-Even relatively small woodworking projects take a lot more time than people expect.
-The cost of tools and machinery is more than most people budget for, with few exceptions woodworking is not a cheap hobby.
-Many people don't have access to a dry, warm, secure space. As home ownership rates decline this problem will only get worse.
-The skills gap is bigger than a lot of newbies expect, they're misled by YouTube videos promising easy, quick results. Woodworking just isn't like that!

If your idea can tackle some of these problems, and therefore allow more beginning/intermediate woodworkers to realise their full potential, then I'll wish you the very best of luck. I'd really salute something (anything!) that could get more people engaged in actually making stuff rather than just wittering about it on the internet!

 

[johnnyb]

Unfortunately our only local tool/craft shop has recently closed(Kraftkabin) a sign of the times I guess. They used to hold there own show in the kings hall in stoke years ago. It was a great way to connect.

 

[AJB Temple]

OK, so this is your opportunity to stock a few tools and sell them to your club members. You already have the premises. You will quickly get an idea of what people need once you get going.