marking problem

[nimmaj]

hello,

currently flattening some small boards by hand for a chisel tray. i've got good face sides and edges, shot the ends and thicknessed the board, so i'm on to the last edge of each board.

the distance from the face edge is about 6cm. i'm struggling to mark this using one of the wheel guages like these http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Marking-Gauge-479863.htm - the line wavers presumably because the distance being marked is so much greater than the width of the brass.

my question is: is this just a question of practice? or should i be using a different guage to mark a line to plane down to? i can't seem to find an obvious tool on any of the websites. there are indications that a panel guage may be what i'm after - presumably i'd have to make one of these?

any advice appreciated!

thanks,

ben

 

[Chems]

Why not just measure from your other flattened edge say 6cm on both ends, then just draw a line using your straight edge between the to points. You then have a line thats parallel with the straightened side? No fancy tools needed.

 

[MikeG.]

Surely this is a case of using the wrong tool? Measuring and drawing a line as suggested above is one approach, or you could use an adjustable square. Simply slide the rule through until you have set the right distance from the edge, and mark in a couple of places.........

 

[nimmaj]

Thanks for the replies. You're probably both right.

However I've just got this nagging feeling that it's more accurate to bootstrap a line off the edge you want it parallel to. I suspect i'll end up with something that's not parallel if i mark it by hand.

Another point is that either i try to rule 2 lines accurately (one on each face) and plane down to them - this seems to be another big possibility for error. If i rule one line and then use a square to determine the height of the other i could resolve this, i guess.

Finally, there's a good chance that i would make the ruled line on each of the four small boards at a slightly different height. One way to get around this would be to clamp the pippers together - probably in pairs as they're different lengths - and somehow plane them to the same height.

I guess it just seems to me that if you _could_ get some sort of gauge to work, you could have pairs of lines on each board which are much more likely to be at the same distance from the face edge on each board.

I was thinking that perhaps something like a marking guage but with a much wider stock might do the trick.

Anyway, i ramble. Perhaps i've just got to learn to mark straight! Thanks for the help,

Ben

 

[Mr Ed]

If the width you're scribing is only 60mm then a marking gauge (wheel type or any other) should be fine. A marking gauge is the right tool for the job. In the past I've marked distances as much as 150mm like this

I think its down to technique - the key is to keep the pressure against the stock so it stays tight to the edge. I would concentrate on pressing he gauge against the work and treat pulling it along as the secondary focus.

Cheers, Ed

 

[MikeG.]

It was quite early when I replied........and in my bleary-eyed pre-walk state I read that as 6 inches not 6cm (what are cm anyway????!!!! we should work in milimetres)...........so Ed is of course right. I was right if the distance was 150mm.........

Mike

 

[nimmaj]

Thanks Ed - I'll go and practice again later!

Totally agree, Mike - one of the things i find funny about woodworking in this country is that we have such a mish mash of units! We can't seem to decide whether to use metric or imperial. Anyway, it usually makes me think twice while marking out which can't be a bad thing ;-)

 

[bugbear]

the distance from the face edge is about 6cm. i'm struggling to mark this using one of the wheel guages like these http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Marking-Gauge-479863.htm - the line wavers presumably because the distance being marked is so much greater than the width of the brass.

I suspect you're trying to press the gauge far too firmly into the wood.

Make a succession of lighter passes, each of which will deepen the cut.

As long as the force (multiplied by the leverage) of the cutting action is less than the force on the fence, you'll get a straight mark.

The first stroke is the key - light pressure and care!

BugBear

 

[nimmaj]

Thanks bugbear. Will try that too.

ben

 

[nimmaj]

Ok - a light touch for the first stroke and concentrating on keeping it pushed against the face edge was what worked for me in the end. Thanks for all the advice!

Ben

 

[bugbear]

Ok - a light touch for the first stroke and concentrating on keeping it pushed against the face edge was what worked for me in the end. Thanks for all the advice!

Ben

Good to know it worked.

BugBear

 

[PaulO]

The other thing that I find helps is to clamp the work to the edge of the bench. Then you can focus both hands on the marking, rather than supporting the work.

You say you are using the mark to plane down to, presumably to get the other edge parallel to the face edge at 60mm. If so you ideally need a marking gauge with the bevel the other way around.

 

[nimmaj]

It's a good point about the bevel - i've ended up with a small chamfer! I wonder if you can get them for this sort of marking guage.

I'm beginning to think it would be sensible to make a marking guage that has the properties that David Charlesworth talks about in various places. Although i must admit that i find the round marking guage generally v. easy to use.

Regarding the clamping - presumably you end up marking in two goes and moving the clamp?

Thanks...

Ben

 

[woodbloke]

Mr C advocates buying cheap gauges that can then be modified quite easily. The existing pin is taken out and replaced by a hardened masonry nail ground to form an edge, with the corresponding bevel (so one edge parallel to the pin, the other beveled) The pin is then set diagonally in the stem. The beauty of having cheap gauges is that you can have lots (I've got at 5 in the 'shop) I have 4 with the bevel on the blade facing the stock and one with it the other way round, so that the particular gauge can be selected for the correct marking out job - Rob

 

[bugbear]

Mr C advocates buying cheap gauges that can then be modified quite easily. The existing pin is taken out and replaced by a hardened masonry nail ground to form an edge, with the corresponding bevel (so one edge parallel to the pin, the other beveled) The pin is then set diagonally in the stem.

On the gauges Mr C likes, the pin is already diagonal.

BugBear (who sent Mr C a large-ish number of said gauges, Stanley 5601)

 

[woodbloke]

BB - I was thinking of this sort of gauge where the pin has been driven through squarely, which I think I've seen Mr C recommend somewhere...but without the brass wear strips - Rob

 

[bugbear]

BB - I was thinking of this sort of gauge where the pin has been driven through squarely, which I think I've seen Mr C recommend somewhere...but without the brass wear strips - Rob

I though Mr C's book was specific about the 5061 - although the principles he states could clearly be applied to other gauges.

Anyone got the book (or magazine) ? I read it in a library copy.

BugBear

 

[nimmaj]

On the planing dvd he definitely talks about the 5601 - not sure he names it, though. I've just had a look through the books and found that he talks about the 5601 in book 1, and buying cheap guages (normal) from tilgear in book 3.

Amazing amount of info in those books for people like me.

Presumably it's easier to make a 5601 copy than find one. Seem to be a few threads on the forum about this. Was there ever a consensus about screws versus wedges for the main holding device?

Have great weekends...

Ben

 

[woodbloke]

buying cheap guages (normal) from tilgear in book 3.

Was there ever a consensus about screws versus wedges for the main holding device?

Ben

It was the gauges from Tilgear that I was thinking of. No real consensus on the screw or wedge issue as far as I recollect. I make mine using a wedge which seems to work fine - Rob

 

[PaulO]

More recent than any of the books is an article of his that was published in F&C March 2007 Issue 125 that covered the modifications required to a £3.95 Marples gauge (available at Tilgear). These include:
-Flattening the gauge surface with a block plane.
-Tilting one side of the shaft so that it twists and locks when the screw is tightened.
- Fitting a small piece of leather under the screw to allow you to slide the head without marking the shaft.
- Modifications to the pin.