Knifed Lines

[Saint Simon]

I'm afraid its another idiot question from me. I know, because all the experts tell me, that I should be using marking knives for laying out my joints. But I find visibility a real problem. I have reasonable, though aging, eyesight but struggle to see my knifed lines when it comes to cutting. For example when transferring tails onto the pin board I normally use a knife but find it necessary to go over the lines with a fine pencil. When using a marking gauge its the same.
Any suggestions please about what I can do as I'm sure knifed lines without added pencil is the way to go. Any advice gratefully received.
thanks
Simon

 

[deema]

Hi Simon
I create knife lines and also for clarity go over them with a pencil. I've found to my cost that a moments distraction can result in grain being mistaken for a knife line with a Billy Do resulting in much frustration. I wouldn't worry about having to go over knife lines with a pencil, it saves a lot of frustration in my book.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Simon

Some years ago I described a method of using blue tape to aid in sawing dovetails. I find this particularly helpful with dark woods.

Here is an example ..

Link to pictorial: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... arrah.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[AndyT]

I've found that it can help a bit if I scribble across the wood with a white pencil (Axminster sell them in dozens) and then cut a line.

 

[condeesteso]

Andy's idea above is good. Also check what light you work by. Diffused above is no good, point-source above but to one side will help. A cheap reading lamp may make quite a difference. And have no fear doing whatever works, it's hitting the lines that matters after all

 

[Trafalgar]

I'm afraid its another idiot question from me. I know, because all the experts tell me, that I should be using marking knives for laying out my joints. But I find visibility a real problem. I have reasonable, though aging, eyesight but struggle to see my knifed lines when it comes to cutting. For example when transferring tails onto the pin board I normally use a knife but find it necessary to go over the lines with a fine pencil. When using a marking gauge its the same.
Any suggestions please about what I can do as I'm sure knifed lines without added pencil is the way to go. Any advice gratefully received.
thanks
Simon

I run a pencil in the line. Not sure why this is being asserted as verboten. You can put a mirror on the bench and it will reflect enough light to make the knifed lines darker. A pencil is easier.

 

[MusicMan]

Well, going over them in pencil is recommended by Robert Wearing, The Complete Woodworker, no less. But he recommends a blunt pencil not a fine one. This is really clever because this leaves a double line either side of the scribe. When sawing a tenon, for example, the aim is then to saw down the inner of these two lines and leave the other one, thereby cutting exactly to the scribe.

The other trick of his is to chisel a little groove on the inside of the cut, going up to the scribe line. Either at the starting corner, or, for precision work, all the way across the joint. The saw then butts up against this mini-face and gives a very accurate start to the cut.

I think Paul Sellars demonstrates this in one of his videos, calling it a 'saw wall' I think.

Keith

 

[Billy Flitch]

Hi Simon
I create knife lines and also for clarity go over them with a pencil. I've found to my cost that a moments distraction can result in grain being mistaken for a knife line with a Billy Do resulting in much frustration. I wouldn't worry about having to go over knife lines with a pencil, it saves a lot of frustration in my book.

Deema whats a Billy Do?

 

[rafezetter]

Another variation on Dereks way is to coat the ends with tippex, dries quick, the knifed line is very obvious, and sands off easily too.

 

[bugbear]

Knife lines are easy to see, especially if you have a sharp edge, but a steep bevel on your knife.

Except in the end grain of dark wood - which means dovetails in mahogany
present a particular difficulty.

Good lighting helps, but then it always does.

BugBear

 

[Argus]

Hi Simon
I create knife lines and also for clarity go over them with a pencil. I've found to my cost that a moments distraction can result in grain being mistaken for a knife line with a Billy Do resulting in much frustration. I wouldn't worry about having to go over knife lines with a pencil, it saves a lot of frustration in my book.

Deema whats a Billy Do?

"Billy Do" = Billet doux, in French a love-letter, but in English transposition, a note, typically a bit sarky...... dunno what he means by it in this context, though!

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I find cutting to the knife line frustrating too, particularly in dark woods as mentioned.

I wear eye glasses for reading, however my normal prescription does not allow me to clearly identify the cut lines at times.

So, I bought a cheap pair of specs from WHSmiths with a greater prescription for such work. This will of course only assist if you have the same prescription in both eyese. Also handy when sharpening small saw teeth etc.

Just be sure to revert back to your normal glasses once the detail work is done.

David

 

[Jacob]

I'm afraid its another idiot question from me. I know, because all the experts tell me, that I should be using marking knives for laying out my joints. But I find visibility a real problem. I have reasonable, though aging, eyesight but struggle to see my knifed lines when it comes to cutting. For example when transferring tails onto the pin board I normally use a knife but find it necessary to go over the lines with a fine pencil. When using a marking gauge its the same.
Any suggestions please about what I can do as I'm sure knifed lines without added pencil is the way to go. Any advice gratefully received.
thanks
Simon

You've been reading the wrong "experts"
The term "marking knife" is misleading as a knife is not suitable for marking and should only be used to cut those marks which need cutting for a clean edge - most often the shoulder line of DTs. For almost everything else use a 2H pencil or a scribe. Scribes are best for marking pins through the pin holes and easier than a knife
Knife marks are a PITA as they go off line easily and are impossible to correct. This is handy if you actually want an indelible line; from marks I've seen on old work I have a theory that this was done sometimes perhaps by a foreman working from the rod on main marks, to ensure accuracy, the rest of the marks to be completed by the bench joiner with a pencil.
Basically you can manage perfectly well (better) without ever using a marking knife - just use a sharp chisel for the occasional cut line.

 

[worn thumbs]

I'm afraid its another idiot question from me. I know, because all the experts tell me, that I should be using marking knives for laying out my joints. But I find visibility a real problem. I have reasonable, though aging, eyesight but struggle to see my knifed lines when it comes to cutting. For example when transferring tails onto the pin board I normally use a knife but find it necessary to go over the lines with a fine pencil. When using a marking gauge its the same.
Any suggestions please about what I can do as I'm sure knifed lines without added pencil is the way to go. Any advice gratefully received.
thanks
Simon

You've been reading the wrong "experts"
The term "marking knife" is misleading as a knife is not suitable for marking and should only be used to cut those marks which need cutting for a clean edge - most often the shoulder line of DTs. For almost everything else use a 2H pencil or a scribe. Scribes are best for marking pins through the pin holes and easier than a knife
Knife marks are a PITA as they go off line easily and are impossible to correct. This is handy if you actually want an indelible line; from marks I've seen on old work I have a theory that this was done sometimes perhaps by a foreman working from the rod on main marks, to ensure accuracy, the rest of the marks to be completed by the bench joiner with a pencil.
Basically you can manage perfectly well (better) without ever using a marking knife - just use a sharp chisel for the occasional cut line.

Good sense.I would add that the hard pencil ought to be sharpened to a chisel point with a piece of fine sandpaper.On dark woods-American black walnut for instance-I have been known to use liquid Tippex to coat the area of the mark prior to applying the pencil as it aids seeing the line quite a lot.

 

[Jacob]

.....
Good sense.I would add that the hard pencil ought to be sharpened to a chisel point with a piece of fine sandpaper.On dark woods-American black walnut for instance-I have been known to use liquid Tippex to coat the area of the mark prior to applying the pencil as it aids seeing the line quite a lot.

Pencil lines can visible on dark woods by virtue of the slight sheen of the lead, though you might have to move your head about (or the light) to see it.