It's ALIVE!!!!!

[Adam9453]

The new dust extraction system is finally up and running, woohoo.
Now it sucks better than a lady of disrepute in a particularly shady dock like boaty mc boat face kind of area!
Cyclone is performing brilliantly, there's nothing in the collection bags and I've just done a lot of thicknessing.
Thoroughly chuffed with it after all the researching time it took to put it together.
If anyone's interested in knowing more then ask away and you shall receive...
(Warning you respond at your own risk, I don't accept responsibility by boredom or drowsiness caused by my excessively detailed responses)

 

[galleywood]

I have not seen any previous posts by you about your system, so could you update me to what it is that you have created.
Thanks.

 

[Rorschach]

I'd love to see some more info.

 

[Monkey Mark]

Ooohhhhhh, pictures please!

 

[MattRoberts]

Yep, defo want to see more please!

 

[bussy]

Yes please, going to re-jig my workshop and decided to finally install my dust extraction properly, so would like to know ail about your setup.

Marty

 

[Adam9453]

I can't post pics from my phone so it'll have to wait until Monday for pics. Here's the spec of what I've installed anyway:
Sip 01956 quad bag 3hp dust extractor with 150mm outlet.
150mm flexible ducting runs to cyclone.
Large cyclone bought from eBay:
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Omni-LARGE-Dust ... nav=SEARCH
The inlet port on the cyclone is 125mm (for some reason) so I used an adapter to increase it back to 150mm.
I then run 150mm flexible ducting from that adapter to the machine I'm using.
The suction is awesome, simply awesome.
I considered installing a fixed duct system but as my workshop is only 3.5x7m it's not really worth it in my opinion.
My main frustration was the various port and adapter sizes. It's frustrating that most were not exactly what they should have been and therefore required a bit of duct tape bodging to attach them together using bits and pieces to act as connecting sleeves to bridge the joints.
The main improvement I need to make is sourcing or making fast change connections for each machine as currently having to duct tape it on because of the various different size connections on my machines.
I plan to get an adapter made for each machine that fits neatly onto its output and standardises it to 150mm output with some kind of fast clip built in so the pipe can be switched in a few seconds. It needs to be as fast as switching blast gates to compete but it'll save me money on ductwork and blast gates etc

 

[slemishwoodcrafts]

I have seen those cyclones on eBay and I have been sorely tempted. Would love to see some pics of your set up!

 

[memzey]

You've got almost exactly the same situation as me Adam. I was looking at that SIP too. Good to read that it has good suction. I wondered about how noisy it was as some reviews made it seem very loud. How loud would you say it is compared to something like a bandsaw?

 

[Adam9453]

Ok heres a pic of my setup, sorry its not clearer but it was mid re-organise so I had a lot of crap all over the place.

Regarding noise, it is certainly quite loud but is quite low pitched so you can stand next to it without it making you wince. Its still quite a fair amount quieter than the planer thicknesser and table saw (they both produce higher pitched noise when cutting). I have bought some self-adhesive sound deadening foam which I plan to stick to all the metal impeller housing and ducting areas of the extractor as that is where most of the noise emanates from. I expect this will help as metal does tend to amplify the sound if its not deadened. I will let you know if this actually makes any tangible difference once I've stuck it all on.
One thing to bear in mind is how big the extractor actually is, you need to make sure you really have enough clear room to position it in. I'm almost certainly going to build a little annexe to my shed to put the extractor in just to regain space in the workshop itself. It will also help with cutting the noise level in the workshop. I will probably use sound deadening foam on the inside of the walls of the annexe to avoid annoying the neighbours.

My other half is usually my gauge for whether machines are too noisy, if she can hear them in the house while she's watching TV at the normal volume then they are what I consider very loud and should only be used at socially acceptable times of day (i.e. not evenings or early mornings). She didn't notice the extractor but did comment on the table saw so I think the lower pitch of the noise and it being a fair amount quieter means it is acceptably noisy. This is my opinion so obviously you may be more or less sensitive/concerned to/about sound than I am.

 

[Adam9453]

I have seen those cyclones on eBay and I have been sorely tempted. Would love to see some pics of your set up!

I ummed and arred about buying the cyclone for absolutely ages and then one day I bit the bullet and ordered it, the 205 litre metal oil drum, the 150mm flexible plastic pipe and adapters. It then took me until now to actually get around to installing it all due to other commitments. The flexible pipe is surprisingly expensive I found. Although I did get a better deal by phoning them directly rather than buying through ebay. They agreed to sell me an odd measurement for the same price as the next price break up.
Remember you need 150mm + jubilee clips too.
As with most things, its the bits and bobs that often blow the budget.
The cyclone was £150, the oil drum was £30, the pipework and adapters were about £130 IIRC which I hadn't really factored into my original costings.
The sip extractor was a steal in my opinion at £407 delivered (incl VAT), when you compare the specs of the sip against those on offer from axminster etc, you get a lot more oomph for your money. The extractor is 3hp but runs fine on a standard 13amp socket (comes wired for this out of the box). For the amount i've paid, I would recommend this setup to anyone.
The only upgrade I may make in the future would be to fit cartridge filters to the extractor instead of the bags. I say maybe because this might not be worth bothering with, if the extractor is in a separate little annexe off the main shed.

 

[Wizard9999]

The cyclone was £150, the oil drum was £30, the pipework and adapters were about £130 IIRC which I hadn't really factored into my original costings.
The sip extractor was a steal in my opinion at £407 delivered (incl VAT), when you compare the specs of the sip against those on offer from axminster etc, you get a lot more oomph for your money. The extractor is 3hp but runs fine on a standard 13amp socket (comes wired for this out of the box). For the amount i've paid, I would recommend this setup to anyone.

Looks a nice set up =D> .

I have just put in a similar system. Same experience with the same cyclone from ebay, great result but the guy in China who makes them seems to do his best to ensure that no adapter on the planet fits either in or out port . I eventually managed to get 125mm flex hose onto the outlet and a very kind man with a lathe made me a bespoke adapter to fit the inlet =D> . I used 125mm spiral metal ducting in my workshop, which is actually a bit smaller than yours. Now wondering if I should have gone 150mm, but it is in now so I'm not changing it :? . Still at least with the fixed system I can direct to the working machine with my home made blast gates so do not have the fast connect / disconnect issue.

One question for you, why did you go for the 'double' SiP unit if everything is ending up in the cyclone bin, what advantage do you see? I have the 3hp blower wall mounted so don't use the rest of the bits mine came with as I am currently venting outside, but building a filter box with HEPA filters for use in winter to avoid heat loss when it counts. If I recall I picked up the two bag 3hp SiP on special from CostCo for about £260.

Terry.

 

[Adam9453]

The reason I went for the quad bag was the increased filter area which massively increases the air flow. The two bag system may have restricted air flow more than I would have liked so I thought it was worth spending the extra money (£100 roughly) to go for the quad bag. Plus what swayed me more was when I realised I had a bit of room to build an annexe for it to go in. The annex will basically perfectly fit the quad bag extractor so I liked that it was efficiently using the space available.
People often say the downside with extracting to outside is that you suck all the warm air out of your workshop so when I move the extractor into the adjoining annexe I will vent the air back into the main workshop (albeit through a filter) so I hopefully get all the benefit without the heat loss.
I really thought about going fixed ducting and blast gates but couldn't justify the cost of all the extra ductwork etc right now. I still may switch to a fixed duct system when I move the extractor because finances should be a little eased by then.

 

[Wizard9999]

The reason I went for the quad bag was the increased filter area which massively increases the air flow. The two bag system may have restricted air flow more than I would have liked so I thought it was worth spending the extra money (£100 roughly) to go for the quad bag. Plus what swayed me more was when I realised I had a bit of room to build an annexe for it to go in. The annex will basically perfectly fit the quad bag extractor so I liked that it was efficiently using the space available.
People often say the downside with extracting to outside is that you suck all the warm air out of your workshop so when I move the extractor into the adjoining annexe I will vent the air back into the main workshop (albeit through a filter) so I hopefully get all the benefit without the heat loss.
I really thought about going fixed ducting and blast gates but couldn't justify the cost of all the extra ductwork etc right now. I still may switch to a fixed duct system when I move the extractor because finances should be a little eased by then.

OK, understand that logic. It is one of the things I think will be interesting when I finish my home made filter box, i.e. the extent to which the quality of extraction is reduced when running through the filter rather than going unrestricted outside. Presumably this will not be an issue with the system sited outside in your case.

But, when you vent back into the shop for heat loss avoidance will you not then run up against this issue somewhat? If the external housing is not airtight the heat may just head outside instead of back into the shop through the filter, but if it is air tight won't the capacity of the filter through which air is going back into the shop become a potential restriction on the system?

Terry.

 

[Adam9453]

Yes that's exactly right Terry, it's one of the reasons why I will make the filter area as large as possible in each case. The more filter area means the less restriction. There will always be a compromise like you say but I would expect to retain most of the heat and just lose a little through the walls of the annexe. The annexe will be very thoroughly insulated and sound proofed to minimise heat and noise leakage.
If I upgrade the filter bags to find filter cartridges then I possibly wouldn't bother filtering the air that comes back from the annexe as it would be clean enough.
I should also mention I've got a record air cleaner to hang from the ceiling to get rid of any leftover find dust that might have managed to fight its way through everything and back into the air.
It's the best I can do within my budget which I think is all any of us can do.
If money were no object then I think I'd have down draft flooring, tables and ceiling running off an enormous industrial grade extraction system with auto cleaning, filtering and warm air recirculation. It would be like an air tunnel but dust free lol

 

[Wizard9999]

Yes, life is full of compromise if your pockets aren't full of money . I zoomed into your picture and it looks like the blower has a 150mm port to connect to the cyclone, whereas mine is 125mm, so that is another advantage.

System deterioration due to filtering is a worry for me. I am following the approach of Marius Hornberger on YouTube by using HEPA filters from a domestic air filter. He uses two 41.5cm by 32cm filters for his 3hp blower and seems happy with the performance, but being a worrier I have built a filter box with four of them. Once the filter box is finished I'll try and get something posted up on the comparison of outdoor venting and going through the filter.

Terry.

 

[shuggy]

I can't post pics from my phone so it'll have to wait until Monday for pics. Here's the spec of what I've installed anyway:
Sip 01956 quad bag 3hp dust extractor with 150mm outlet.
150mm flexible ducting runs to cyclone.
Large cyclone bought from eBay:
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Omni-LARGE-Dust ... nav=SEARCH
The inlet port on the cyclone is 125mm (for some reason) so I used an adapter to increase it back to 150mm.
I then run 150mm flexible ducting from that adapter to the machine I'm using.
The suction is awesome, simply awesome.
I considered installing a fixed duct system but as my workshop is only 3.5x7m it's not really worth it in my opinion.
My main frustration was the various port and adapter sizes. It's frustrating that most were not exactly what they should have been and therefore required a bit of duct tape bodging to attach them together using bits and pieces to act as connecting sleeves to bridge the joints.
The main improvement I need to make is sourcing or making fast change connections for each machine as currently having to duct tape it on because of the various different size connections on my machines.
I plan to get an adapter made for each machine that fits neatly onto its output and standardises it to 150mm output with some kind of fast clip built in so the pipe can be switched in a few seconds. It needs to be as fast as switching blast gates to compete but it'll save me money on ductwork and blast gates etc

Hi Adam9453 - Thanks for posting this, it's very interesting. I've managed to get an old dual bag 2hp machine, and I need a cyclone setup too. Can I just ask what the cyclone unit fits into? Is it an old container of some sort? I can't quite make out from the pic.
Cheers!

 

[katellwood]

May I join in with a few ideas

Purchased one of the cyclones some months ago and got it set up on a 2hp what was a single bag extractor which I have been using for about 15 yrs



got a couple of these collection buckets which are interchangeable and much easier to handle than the 220l 50 gal variety



I must admit I do vent outside even in winter as my chippings burner creates enough heat and the extractor is outside the main workshop (must finish off insulating and plasterboarding the ceiling)

Inside the main shop I have two distinct routes one to a felder combi the other to the bandsaw which also connects to other machines which are rolled out when needed, basically a multico tenoner, Jet panel sander and a axi oscillating edge sander

I stopped using blastgates and setup a valve system which works well and can be swopped from different locations in the workshop. the little dowels are there for when the area the valve slides into becomes clogged I just pop them out and give it a blast with a compressed air gun









I turn the system on and off by means of a piece of cord which runs the full width of the workshop with a branch off to where I infeed on the table saw, this is attached to a shower pull screwed to the wall and turns the extractor on and off



works great for me

 

[Adam9453]

I can't post pics from my phone so it'll have to wait until Monday for pics. Here's the spec of what I've installed anyway:
Sip 01956 quad bag 3hp dust extractor with 150mm outlet.
150mm flexible ducting runs to cyclone.
Large cyclone bought from eBay:
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Omni-LARGE-Dust ... nav=SEARCH
The inlet port on the cyclone is 125mm (for some reason) so I used an adapter to increase it back to 150mm.
I then run 150mm flexible ducting from that adapter to the machine I'm using.
The suction is awesome, simply awesome.
I considered installing a fixed duct system but as my workshop is only 3.5x7m it's not really worth it in my opinion.
My main frustration was the various port and adapter sizes. It's frustrating that most were not exactly what they should have been and therefore required a bit of duct tape bodging to attach them together using bits and pieces to act as connecting sleeves to bridge the joints.
The main improvement I need to make is sourcing or making fast change connections for each machine as currently having to duct tape it on because of the various different size connections on my machines.
I plan to get an adapter made for each machine that fits neatly onto its output and standardises it to 150mm output with some kind of fast clip built in so the pipe can be switched in a few seconds. It needs to be as fast as switching blast gates to compete but it'll save me money on ductwork and blast gates etc

Hi Adam9453 - Thanks for posting this, it's very interesting. I've managed to get an old dual bag 2hp machine, and I need a cyclone setup too. Can I just ask what the cyclone unit fits into? Is it an old container of some sort? I can't quite make out from the pic.
Cheers!

I have my cyclone on top of an oil drum which is my collection container.
As you can see from Kastellwood's pictures, you can use any container really.
It just needs to be big enough to catch a decent amount of dust/chippings but not so big that you can't move it when full.
I went for a 205 litre metal oil drum (from amazon) as it was only £30 and I was concerned the plastic buckets would be too small. I think for most people buying a two or three of the plastic buckets (like kastellwood has) would make more sense as when one is full, you just remove it and replace with your spare empty bucket. you can then take the full ones to the tip to empty without having to stop using your saw is transferring the chippings between containers.

 

[shuggy]

Excellent Kastellwood and Adam9453! Many thanks, now it makes sense =D>