http://youtu.be/scEJxoBaLeI
Apologies if somebody has already posted this video.
Apologies if somebody has already posted this video.
Interesting video by Mr Underhill on Japanese planes
- Thread starter Steve1066
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custard
Established Member
Thanks for posting that, I enjoyed watching it.
It struck me that you'd need to be a very, very accomplished craftsman to use a Japanese plane. Even if you bought a plane body matched to the iron, by the time it arrived in this country it would almost certainly have warped slightly because of our very different climate, so to get the iron to fit perfectly, and keep it there over time, would require pretty impressive skill levels. Not a plane for woodworking beginners!
It struck me that you'd need to be a very, very accomplished craftsman to use a Japanese plane. Even if you bought a plane body matched to the iron, by the time it arrived in this country it would almost certainly have warped slightly because of our very different climate, so to get the iron to fit perfectly, and keep it there over time, would require pretty impressive skill levels. Not a plane for woodworking beginners!
I've had a couple. Afraid I couldn't really get accustomed to them. They are very low to the workpiece, which may be an advantage in certain circumstances. I could never get anywhere near the speed that I could with a western style wooden plane.
It's the humidity that affects the sole geometry but that's also true of any wooden plane. including western types. Just as well I have a humidifier/dehumidifier. :wink: I suppose the Japanese method of preparing the sole helps to lessen the adverse effects of humidity changes. There's no reson why you can't do the same on a western plane, in fact I've tried it a few times.
It's the humidity that affects the sole geometry but that's also true of any wooden plane. including western types. Just as well I have a humidifier/dehumidifier. :wink: I suppose the Japanese method of preparing the sole helps to lessen the adverse effects of humidity changes. There's no reson why you can't do the same on a western plane, in fact I've tried it a few times.
custard":2r1gqs3q said:
That's pritty much what I thought. The only real way to get around it would be to import a blade and build you own body out of local timber.
Personally I am in no hurry to give up my western style plane I think there more versatile and harder wearing, I just find other cultures methods of woodworking very interesting and there always a little tip or trick to pick up.
It has nothing to do with the timber, where it was grown or little to do with where the plane was made. You just need to allow the wood to settle in your ambient humidity and then fettle the plane. Then again it's not as though the UK has one fixed humidty level all year. It varies, from day to day. Usually it's higher in the summer than winter, as a general guide. This winter has proved to be 50 - 60% RH winter, more like late spring, summer or early autumn.
custard":2rx0z1wc said:
They're not as bad as they would seem. Not a plane to put away and get out once a year to use, but there is a range of iron fit that works fine (fit as in how far the iron is from the mouth when inserting it with just hand pressure).
The detriment with them is that iron maintenance is fairly if you have worked past the hollow in the back of the iron, and sharpening is a bit slow compared to western tools because the iron is thick and a grinder is excluded.
I wouldn't agree with this. I always think it's better to use locally grown timber if you can.MIGNAL":190t8gm5 said:
I fined it to be more stable and the aquivalant foreign timber and moves much less with the change in humidity.
This come from joinery and carpenter perspective, I would be interested in a furniture maker opinion on this.
Well as a musical instrument maker I regularly use wood from around the world. Ebony from India and Africa, Rosewood from India (I stopped using Brazilian long time ago) and a few other exotics that I'm slowly using less of. These are thin sawn veneer type timbers that are much more susceptible to cracks and humidity changes. In my experience it's the type of cut, the nature of the wood itself and any inbuilt tensions that make it either suitable or unsuitable. Ebony probably isn't the best timber to use as Plane material. That has more to do with how it readily reacts to changes in humidity. The numbers for tangential movement ect. are out there. I suspect that the Japanese Oak is much better suited than Ebony. It really doesn't matter if it's 75% RH in Tokyo or 75% RH in Tooting, the wood will react the same.
Interesting that you uses Japanese Oak as an example. It's because of this timber I started down the line of local timber for local work.MIGNAL":tm5fs38g said:
Japanese Oka specified by an architect for a glass and timber two story high plus gable. on the end of an old barn conversion. The movement in the timber war quite incredible, after three years it was still moving enough to crack the glass pains. In the end the architect Insurance company paid for it to be replaced with English oak, and as I understand there has never been a problem since, and this was 20 years ago.
I suppose the differences I am talking about movement in timbers between 3 to 30 feet, what you're talking about 3 inches to 2 feet.
I haven't got any numbers for Japanese Oak. All I have is that it supposedly has a moderate amount of movement in service. Interesting that we can compare Beech (the traditional European Plane wood) which is given as having a large movement in service. So much for stability.
On the sole of a Plane that movement will be very small. A hollow (or change) of 0.5 mm would be considered a huge movement. It also depends on how or rather where it moves. If the sole goes convex it isn't a great problem. If it goes concave it certainly can be a problem. Don't forget that the soles of Japanese planes usually have 'relief' put in, they are deliberately concave in two key areas - between the front of the plane and an area ahead of the mouth, between the rear of the mouth and the very back of the plane. Think of 2 scoops along the length of the sole, the sole contacting at 3 points. All planes start to function poorly if the area immediately ahead of the blade/mouth is hollow. I suspect that the Japanese treatment of the sole goes some way to negating the humidity changes.
PS. I still don't like them.
On the sole of a Plane that movement will be very small. A hollow (or change) of 0.5 mm would be considered a huge movement. It also depends on how or rather where it moves. If the sole goes convex it isn't a great problem. If it goes concave it certainly can be a problem. Don't forget that the soles of Japanese planes usually have 'relief' put in, they are deliberately concave in two key areas - between the front of the plane and an area ahead of the mouth, between the rear of the mouth and the very back of the plane. Think of 2 scoops along the length of the sole, the sole contacting at 3 points. All planes start to function poorly if the area immediately ahead of the blade/mouth is hollow. I suspect that the Japanese treatment of the sole goes some way to negating the humidity changes.
PS. I still don't like them.
