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Dangermouse.

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Picked these up recently, the bits are quite interesting. Chair makers bits I think. The spoon type is a work of art and marked John Wilson, Sheffield. The dividers are really nicely made, as tight as the day they were new. Stamped with CK Germany, no idea on date of these, early 20th century perhaps.
 

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I'm glad you brought this topic up, especially the tapered bit. I bought a couple pretty sililar off ebay a while ago, sold as chairmakers tapered drill bits. Here they are, with a few other bits and bobs:

borers.jpg

Now, I showed them to a firend of mine (Andy) who surprised me by doubting that they ever were intended for drilling. Now, he is a green woodworker but also a boat builder, so worth listening to. He thought they could have been some form of sailmaker's fid. I'm not sure I am convinced, but the are a few things that make me wonder if he might not have a point:

- The bits are not at all hard. The tip of both is twisted.
- There is no sharp edge to them at all
- The square section for holding in a brace is very poorly forged, if that is what it is. The one I've propped up on edge is particularly flat, and looks more like it would have had a handle like the cooper's bung hole borers pictured.
- The maker's marks are not ones I normally recognise as drill bit manufacturers.

So what are they ? Anyone know for sure ?
 

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I did a search on fids and every one I came across were solid, like this one. As far as I can figure these bits were a variation on the spoon bit, used to bore a tapered hole for chair legs and spindles. The solid square tapered one I have I don't know ............ I have tried both and they do bore a hole, better in end grain than cross. but they do the job, the spoon bit is sharp on one inner side. I have only just gone over it with a slip stone, but if it was really honed I would think it would cut fine.
 

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Dangermouse.":36gvf7pk said:
I did a search on fids and every one I came across were solid, like this one. As far as I can figure these bits were a variation on the spoon bit, used to bore a tapered hole for chair legs and spindles. The solid square tapered one I have I don't know ............ I have tried both and they do bore a hole, better in end grain than cross. but they do the job, the spoon bit is sharp on one inner side. I have only just gone over it with a slip stone, but if it was really honed I would think it would cut fine.


Quite agree...I believe that these tools were used like a reamer... didnt actually drill a hole, just shaped and enlarged one. bye the bye ... the instrument that you showed is actually a spike ... a fid is all wood, fids are used when splicing rope, spikes for wire, sometimes spike had wooden handles others were all metal, they were never meant for making 'holes' in the sailmaking world a totally different tool was used for punching holes in canvas.. (ex RN sailmaker for 20 years ... many many years ago!)
 
I think there's a degree of sellers (to be polite) optimism here.

All taperered cutters are "chairmakers", all rasps are "planemakers floats" and all dog legged tools are for gunmakers...

Tapered reamers, in either shell, semicircular or square types were extensively used by many trades, back in the day.

BugBear
 
Expanding a little on what Sam and BB have said, the 'reamers' 'rimers' or 'rinders' (take your pick on spelling) go back to the days before woodscrew sizes were standardised. In the dim and distant days of the 19th century, it was apparently not uncommon for the person fitting (say) hinges and lock to a door to have to 'ease' the screwholes in the ironmongery to fit the available screws. Also, centre-bits of the old type quite often drill holes that are a tad large to their nominal size, and which may require 'easing' to fit whatever may be going in them. Thus, the well-equipped joiner would have a set of reamers (one each for wood, iron and brass) and a set of countersinks (one each, ditto) to ensure he could fit whatever ironmongery came his way.

With standardisation in the early 20th century came improved fit of parts bought from different suppliers, and the need for 'reamers' to fit ironmongery properly dwindled. They still crop up a lot on the secondhand market; almost every vintage bit roll seems to have at least a part set of rimers and countersinks.

There are three types of reamer, the square cross-section ones are for iron (wrought or cast - mild steel didn't come along until later in the 19th century), a solid half-round cross-section for brass, and the hollow half-round section ones for wood. There were also three types of countersink; snail type for wood, rose type for brass, and the flat type for iron.
 
Well what ever they were for, As soon as I saw them I knew what they were Ideal for and will be used in part two of my restoring chisel video series on youtube. :D
 
Dangermouse.":2s2pwcxl said:
I did a search on fids and every one I came across were solid, like this one. As far as I can figure these bits were a variation on the spoon bit, used to bore a tapered hole for chair legs and spindles. The solid square tapered one I have I don't know ............ I have tried both and they do bore a hole, better in end grain than cross. but they do the job, the spoon bit is sharp on one inner side. I have only just gone over it with a slip stone, but if it was really honed I would think it would cut fine.

As I know them, a fid is a conical shaped piece of Lignum Vitae, and they are used in varying sizes for splicing rope hawsers; that is the huge diameter hempen ropes. The fids are malleted through the weave of the rope, to open it up, for splicing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fid

The metal fid you show is what I knew as a 'Pricker' (No jokes please?). Those are used in various sizes for splicing wire ropes. The other variation of these is a 'Marline-spike', used for the same purpose, but are fitted a metal grommet around the handle to allow use of a hammer. Made of forged steel usually.

On Minesweepers we were issued with a pricker, just for the purpose of securing 'ring-shackles', that held the various bits of the 'sweep' together.

HTH
 
wizard":2arpmnaz said:
COOPER'S BARREL BUNG HOLE REAMERS have a few myself

The tools shown might make a hole big enough for a cork, but not a proper bung :D

The cooper's tool is similar but (ta da!) larger.

BugBear
 
The larger of the borers in my picture goes up to 1.25", and is said to be a coopers bung hole borer - it is made by Marples. The next size down is similar, but 1", and is by Thos. Ibbotson. I now take it that the smaller two are in fact for reaming out holes - the tip is too fragile to drill a hole from scratch, one fits a brace quite well and is only marked with a large arrow on the shank, the other mush have has a handle like the bung hole borers.

I can see where Dangermouse is going with the chisel repairs ... great idea.

And another question - if they are a chairmaker's tapered reamer, for what exactly did a chaitmaker need such small tapered holes ? having recently made a greenwood chair, no tapered holes were needed, neither are they in any of the orther designs I looked at. Perhaps I should be embarassed to ask this, but ... On the other hand, the bung hole borer, the large one - is great for tapered holes for knock out legs on shave horses, etc. Avoid the seasonal wobble you get with a parallel hole, and with a through hole you get a nice little button to strike to knock the legs back out again.
 
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