Inlays

[Alexam]

never done any before, but would like to inlay small shapes of opposite coloured wood. Idea is musical notes of around 20-30mm, minimal depth. What is the easiest way to do this? Router, if it's visibly easy, or is there a way to carve to an equal depth. Was thinking of the front of drawers on jewellery boxes. Any ideas and helpful guidance would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[marcros]

I would have a look at the router inlay sets. They sound ideal for your application.

Trend certainly do one, and the likes of woodcraft in the USA- some websites will have better info than others. YouTube will show them in action.

 

[Mr T]

I think a parquetry approach may work. If it fits with the context the face would be veneered with a background veneer with the motifs incised into it. The motifs could be cut with scalpel, fretsaw or even laser cut.

Chris

 

[Alexam]

Thanks guys. I have today been looking at some inlay video's of guitar makers and perhaps they may work. I had been thinking of deeper inlays, but possibly marquetry may be best to use. Need to try this sort of thing out now and see what's best. Any good sources for marquetry sheets?

 

[marcros]

i needed some vivid coloured pieces late last year and used http://www.thewoodveneerhub.co.uk/wood- ... eer-packs/

some places charge a lot for postage, which is frustrating when you only need a small amount. This placed seemed reasonable so I gave them a go.

 

[nicguthrie]

Hi Alexam!

Just got back to the forum, glad to see you're still here

I can't really guide you to a good place for marquetry, but have you got a Dremel type mini tool? I have a router base for mine, it works on both the cordless one and the corded cheapy for when I think I might perhaps put it under a bit of strain on the size of a job. Using that and a little flat router bit (not the annoying spiral cutters that are often labelled as such, but a proper 3mm shank straight router bit) I get fantastic control cos it's so light, and damn near perfect cuts due to it's high rpm and general ease of use. This is similar to the bit I use for routing nice flat areas on things for inlay and features - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dremel-Ge...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item29fb5acea4

There's authentic Dremel router bases, cheap generic ones, and even an expensive shiny one by one of the posh accessory/fence/guide manufacturers (micro-something) The one I have is perfectly adequate for most jobs, it's an old one for the Black and Becker "Wizard" Dremel clone which I think is discontinued.

Thought it might help if you didn't know about them. All the best.

Nic.

 

[Alexam]

Great............................. that's two lots of information I can use. Not thought of the Dremmel type for 'routing' in a small way, which sounds about right. I have a small dremel type thingy, which I have hardly used and will look to see if there is an appropriate cutter. I seem to remember that the shank of the tools is only about 2-3mm, but will investigate the optiuons. Not sure if I will invest in a proper dremmel just yet.

The veneer location looks good, so will give that a try, unless you have a few bits af various veneers you don't use marcos and we could do a deal?

Thanks both

 

[marcros]

Any particular colours, or are you looking for light and dark as contrasts? I may have a few bits and bobs but am out tomorrow night so it may take a couple of days to look. I certainly have some walnut, oak and probably something light coloured because I have the first two as backing veneers. I can send you a few bits to have a play with.

The cheaper option than that link, if you are using small pieces and want a mix are offcuts from eBay.

Dremel bits are 3.2mm. I got some useful bits off eBay from Hong Kong I think- they were an end mill but worked well and were about £7 for 10. These look the same but are a bit more. http://ebay.to/1BlqawH mine were for stringing so were 0.6mm IIRC. If they are in my cupboard i will send one.

Is your address on the website- if not can you PM it to me?

 

[Alexam]

Thanks Mark, useful help and information.

I have suggested that the Moderators consider a forum for Inlays, veneering and Intarsia as the information on these is rather scattered about. I thought that this may be a good subject for the Forum as many woodworkers seem to get involved with this at some time and members like myself, who have never tried any of this, could benefit from the experience of others.

This morning hasbeen even more confusing when I tried looking at router bases for a dremel and came across this link on google
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dreme ... e&imgdii=_

CAn anyone simplify this for me and point me in the right direction for something suitable and possible retailers - unless you have one to sell on?

 

[marcros]

I have a shop made version of this one http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... _Base.html

the base is perspex, the side rods m6 threaded bar. The difficult part is the tapped hole in the aluminium- it is a strange thread that hardly anybody has a tap for. 3/4 - 12 IIRC, there is a thread on here somebody where I asked if anybody had one. Mine isn't perfect, but it does work well.

This is an interesting link http://www.projectguitar.com/topic/6851 ... lex-shaft/ i cant view the pictures at work (if they exist), but it doesnt look complex. At the end of the day on this, you are only really trying to suspend the dremel and lock it in place.

Anyhow, with all that said, handy as dremels are, since you would need to buy one and the base, a palm router with a fixed base would be a ready made solution, and may cost a similar sum. http://www.screwfix.com/p/makita-rt0700 ... tAodtDoAIQ is a good one, but have a search for palm router, laminate trimmer, router trimmer etc.

The advantage of these is that you could fit guide bushes, use standard 1/4" bits, and also use them for rounding over on edges if you wanted to. Probably all in all a better solution.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I have suggested that the Moderators consider a forum for Inlays, veneering and Intarsia as the information on these is rather scattered about. I thought that this may be a good subject for the Forum as many woodworkers seem to get involved with this at some time and members like myself, who have never tried any of this, could benefit from the experience of others.

Update FYI. Idea has been run up the management flagpole....lets see if the cat licks it up!

 

[Glynne]

Hi Malcolm,
I have the Trend Inlay kit. I haven't used it yet (Xmas pressy) but you're welcome to come and have a look.
Have you thought of having a chat with a marquetry club? There is one that meets at Curdworth (Sutton Coldfield branch) but www.marquetry.org will give you more details.
Glynne

 

[nicguthrie]

Having just read up on the official Dremel router base, I'm surprised to hear so many bad reviews of it. I'd assumed as with most stuff, that the authentic brand would be superior to the copy cat, but it seems not.

My router base is the Black & Decker Wizard one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-Wi ... B0089MB8D4

I find it very accurate and stable, but a little tricky to set a perfect depth at times.

The only REALLY annoying thing ever having happened to me while routing with the Dremel or Wizard is having a worn bit slip and slowly edge out of the collet while I went, leading to a long slowly increasing in depth cut of no controlled dimensions, right into the edge of the box I was making.

Looking around, the precision bases seem to start at about €50 made of brass and aluminium, and a common choice for luthiers.

I've got a CX2 trim router too, one of my favourite bits of kit, and I got the set with the plunge base, but for luthier type work with high precision, I'd have to find a smaller router bit (the Dremel goes to flush with the shaft at 3.2mm) cos the collet on the cx2 is 8mm.

Hope you find a preferred answer soon!

Nic.

 

[Alexam]

Hi Malcolm,
I have the Trend Inlay kit. I haven't used it yet (Xmas pressy) but you're welcome to come and have a look.
Have you thought of having a chat with a marquetry club? There is one that meets at Curdworth (Sutton Coldfield branch) but http://www.marquetry.org will give you more details.
Glynne

Thanks Glynne, that would be good. We have a 1/2" router, but I have not used it and was not sure if it would give enough area to actually see when cutting out an inlay. I was theredore thinking along the lines of a dremel type tool with a router base to get small inlays cut out. I have no idea what I am doing just yet, but am seeking as much information as possible. I have a Rotograft Hobby kit, whivh is like a dremel, with loads of attachements and it runs at 8000 - 18000 rpm, but don't know how that compares with the dremel, which is no doubt a more expensive tool, there may not be a router attachement for the Rotocraft ???.

Perhaps we can get together when the snowys season lifts and I can see you operate your new toy.
Cheers for now

 

[nicguthrie]

Has your rotocraft thing got a threaded area near the tip? First one I ever had was that brand, but we're talking almost 30yrs back, so I don't recall.

If it does, and has a protective nut to go over it, you could remove that, take it to a store and test if it fits the Dremel... That will tell you whether yours is compatible with the Dremel kits, as they only attach via that thread.





Edit2: hahah edited the wrong post!

 

[Alexam]

Hi Nic, no, it has no threaded area that would attach to anything. I think it was a fairly cheap kit, which |I have only used on the odd occassion. It has a numberof bits, but probably nothing that would be suitable for a router kit. The speed is stated as 8000 - 18000 rpm, whereas the Dremel goes up to 33000 rpm.

What Dreme would you recommend to look at? OR any other make if Dremel are not the only tool with a router attachment

 

[whiskywill]

I bought my Dremel base from here. If you have anything other than a real Dremel you would need to check for thread compatibility. http://www.luthiertools.co.uk/products.html

I also made a circle cutting jig using the same principle for my Dreme clone using clear acrylic sheet (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/210-x-150mm-A ... 3637&rt=nc), but the router is fitted though a plain hole and the thread cover screwed back on.

 

[Alexam]

I have a shop made version of this one http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... _Base.html

the base is perspex, the side rods m6 threaded bar. The difficult part is the tapped hole in the aluminium- it is a strange thread that hardly anybody has a tap for. 3/4 - 12 IIRC, there is a thread on here somebody where I asked if anybody had one. Mine isn't perfect, but it does work well.

This is an interesting link http://www.projectguitar.com/topic/6851 ... lex-shaft/ i cant view the pictures at work (if they exist), but it doesnt look complex. At the end of the day on this, you are only really trying to suspend the dremel and lock it in place.

Anyhow, with all that said, handy as dremels are, since you would need to buy one and the base, a palm router with a fixed base would be a ready made solution, and may cost a similar sum. http://www.screwfix.com/p/makita-rt0700 ... tAodtDoAIQ is a good one, but have a search for palm router, laminate trimmer, router trimmer etc.

The advantage of these is that you could fit guide bushes, use standard 1/4" bits, and also use them for rounding over on edges if you wanted to. Probably all in all a better solution.

Thanks again Mark. I am researching loads of options, but the one thing that puts me off the palm routers is visibility, compared with the dremel and routrr attachement. I haven't used a palm router, but have the feeeling that a dremel, held correctly with a perspex type base, would be more easily controlled and easier to see the outline of a cut. Not sure.

Just found a site on guitar inlays, so will research that area now and see if there is any other advice about on there.

If there are any other members looking at this thread, that have done inlay or marquetry, please help out with advice if you can enlarge on what has been said so far, particularly on tools, adhesives, etc. Cheers

 

[nicguthrie]

Tough call, recommending a tool for someone else, but if you go the authentic Dremel route, I'd say the 4000is the besthttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Dremel-4000...F8&qid=1422548463&sr=1-3&keywords=dremel+3000. It's a fair bit pricier than the 3000 but one of the things that makes sense for the extra money is that it has electronics built in to maintain the speed you've set under load. That should help when meeting irregularities as you do while working thru woods. having said that, with a light touch and care, I've never hurt my little 3000 or my Li-Ion version, even while making a rebate through an old oak box, to hold a base on. So if money is tight, you could spend around half (or less) for the 3000 and I doubt it would hurt, but the 4000 is more designed for the job.

The Makita that Marcros suggests, is the same base unit as mine, and it's a fantastic motor and beautifully made bit of kit. There is a plunge base available for it (cleverly the router slips out of it's base and can be popped into others) and I checked for you, you can actually get double fluted 3.2mm straight cut router bits for it's collet http://www.screwfix.com/p/trend-2-flute-straight-router-cutter-shank-3-2-x-12-7mm/8789f but yes, even though it's great kit, your view is a bit more restricted with it than with a Dremel type tool, and it's substantially heavier (tho capable of much more heavy duty tasks and very light for it's capabilities)

Luthier forums and suppliers often talk of the Proxxon multitool as being very good, precise and robust, it certainly has a more powerful motor, but it doesn't look like it has the threaded fore-section, so it won't be compatible with the Dremel accessories.

The link whiskywill linked does the Dremel compatible brass/alu one at a reasonable price with optional extras, might do you nicely. I know it's what I'd go for, should my own base ever fail - it's even got the one thing my own is missing - in fact they're almost all missing, even the £200 makita CX4, a micro-depth adjustment. http://www.luthiertools.co.uk/products.html At £35 I'm tempted to just pick one up, it looks like a good clone of the top end stewmac that Marcros mentioned.

Nic.

EDIT: Based on one of the nice features of my black and Decker one, I'd suggest you put a layer of low friction tape under the base of it, to stop from getting scratches on the surface of the wood you're working on, especially since that one has a metal base.

 

[Alexam]

Thanks again Nic. Great information to help me and others looking into this area of woodwork. I recon the Dremel 4000 seems to be the business and I do like the look of the dsremel router base, although another one I have seen, has an acrylic base, but perhaps that does not help seeing the work. Good point on the tape under the plate, although there would be some sanding to finish off the inlay work.

Getting there slowly and all good points for a beginner like me.