How do I remove the lateral adjuster from this 608 ?
- Thread starter Dovetaildave
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Fromey
Established Member
I'd very much like to know the answer/advice to this as well. I have an old Record No. 5 with a bad case of sloppy lever adjuster.
carlb40
Established Member
You will have to drill it out, thus destroying the rivet. You would then need to make a new one from a suitable material. One that can be hammered over with a hammer / dolly for riveting 
lanemaux
In Memorium
If you do not mind my asking amigo, why are you wanting to remove it? If it is merely sloppy due to wear , perhaps re-piening is the answer. With a small heavy bit of metal and a hammer of smallish face , it is a fairly easy task.
Vann
Established Member
I can't speak for the OP, but I have an adjuster on a broken frog, that I want to move to a good frog that's lost it's adjuster. I think a nail would possibly be the right material, but I haven't been brave enough to try yet - in case the whole thing gets jammed-up. I have considered asking a friend with a lathe to turn up a stepped rivet to prevent that... but again procrastination winslanemaux":1u7uh2sb said:
.Cheers, Vann.
James C
Established Member
I have removed the lateral adjuster from my No 7 (Stanley). I filed down the back of the rivet until it was flush with casting of the frog and then tapped it out with a centre punch. It was quite simple to remove and allowed me to fettle the frog to better support the iron.
Once I was finished it was quite simple to push the lever and rivet back in. It hasn't fallen out and is definitely not any looser now so you probably wouldn't need to replace it.
Once I was finished it was quite simple to push the lever and rivet back in. It hasn't fallen out and is definitely not any looser now so you probably wouldn't need to replace it.
Dovetaildave
Established Member
Thanks guys, some useful and quality information being shared here...
James, exactly my situation, needs fettling.
Coming from the back is a gravitational solution to the problem, only it could fall out would be at honing times.
Vann, I'm in the same position as you , this 608c is killing me, if it can go wrong it has (import tax, chipbrealer, clifton blade not posted by seller, now its the frog in need of fettling)and may/will ......so I want to get this right !
Carlb40, I understand basics about riveting, I think , but don't have dolly or rivet.
Could anyone who has actually done this suggest a source of metal I could use, such as galvanised nail or similar suitable for piening?
James, exactly my situation, needs fettling.
Coming from the back is a gravitational solution to the problem, only it could fall out would be at honing times.
Vann, I'm in the same position as you , this 608c is killing me, if it can go wrong it has (import tax, chipbrealer, clifton blade not posted by seller, now its the frog in need of fettling)and may/will ......so I want to get this right !
Carlb40, I understand basics about riveting, I think , but don't have dolly or rivet.
Could anyone who has actually done this suggest a source of metal I could use, such as galvanised nail or similar suitable for piening?
James C
Established Member
Sorry I don't understand how the lateral lever will fall out during honing. When I sharpen my blade on my Stanley I lift out the breaker and iron and leave the frog in the plane.
I would like to say that with the blade assembly out I have left my plane on its side and even upside down to wax the sole and the lever still stays in. It has quite a good push fit because when filing the rivet it rounded over the edges slightly making it the same size as the hole.
I would like to say that with the blade assembly out I have left my plane on its side and even upside down to wax the sole and the lever still stays in. It has quite a good push fit because when filing the rivet it rounded over the edges slightly making it the same size as the hole.
Racers
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Hi,
I would be inclined to leave it in place, its on the thinnest part of the frog, the easiest part to break.
I have never had to remove one on all the planes I have had or still have. you can file/lap the face flat by attacking it diagonally from each side.
Pete
I would be inclined to leave it in place, its on the thinnest part of the frog, the easiest part to break.
I have never had to remove one on all the planes I have had or still have. you can file/lap the face flat by attacking it diagonally from each side.
Pete
Dovetaildave
Established Member
James, again sound experienced advice, I just imagined it may fall out when on its side, I'll probably go with your way if I cant solve the rivet replacement problem.
Pete, The high point seems to be right at the top to 10 mm below, I suspect others have done the diagonal way before, I thought I'd try the longways push pull, I have done diagonal on others and if this works out I'll probably redo the rest this way.
Any metal workers or anyone experienced in this able to suggest a particular metal item that would lend itself the peining and is the right diameter and metal type?
Pete, The high point seems to be right at the top to 10 mm below, I suspect others have done the diagonal way before, I thought I'd try the longways push pull, I have done diagonal on others and if this works out I'll probably redo the rest this way.
Any metal workers or anyone experienced in this able to suggest a particular metal item that would lend itself the peining and is the right diameter and metal type?
Attachments
James C
Established Member
I think Pete is riight, it would probably be easier to leave it and file diagonally, but as I do not trust my filing skills and because I wanted to lap it flat on wet 'n' dry it was better for me to remove it. As ith most things there are several ways of reaching the same goal.
jimi43
Established Member
You only need to be careful you don't hit the frog as others have said..it is remarkably fragile...but filing down the rounded end of the pin is the way to go then drift it out with anything that size...
Any soft steel or even brass rod of that size will do...I also have some real rivets if you want a few....but not sure they will be the right size...can you measure it with a caliper once you take it out?
Peining back is easy as all you need is a hard flat surface and you simply tap (not hard) slowly until the end rounds over.
Jim
Any soft steel or even brass rod of that size will do...I also have some real rivets if you want a few....but not sure they will be the right size...can you measure it with a caliper once you take it out?
Peining back is easy as all you need is a hard flat surface and you simply tap (not hard) slowly until the end rounds over.
Jim
As Jim says a soft steel or brass rod should do the trick. Find an ordinary round wire nail of a suitable diameter and file the head down to a smaller size if necessary. Cut the nail so that that about 2mm will protrude when it is inserted. Rest the head on a resistant flat metal object (e.g. an anvil if available). Form a rivet head on the protruding end by tapping gently with the ball of a small ball pein hammer. Practice first by drilling and riveting a hole in a piece of scrap metal. This should make a functional rivet head but rivet snaps could be used if you want to form a perfect dome. As the nail will be carbon steel you may wish to finish by applying dabs of paint to prevent rust.
bugbear
Established Member
Dovetaildave":31cdq6sr said:
As long as the frog is flat near the sole where the blade is clamped by the lever-cap and cap-iron I wouldn't worry too much about a globally flat frog, and the higher up the frog, the less important. Any absurdly high points can be simply filed off.
Just to be clear, I would certainly not remove the lateral adjust to flatten a frog.
BugBear (experienced plane fettler)
Eric The Viking
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Two thoughts:
1. It depends how rounded it is on the back of the frog. If it's only slightly peined over, you might tap it up to be conical with some harder steel and working round the pin, tapping sideways. That way you might pein it over again at the back as before, once your work on the frog is done.
2. If you file it flat, as James C suggested, you would secure it for practical porpoises afterwards by centre-punching it, on the filed-off end, near the edge. If worried, put a drip of Loctite stud-locking compound in the hole before you drive it back. It probably won't help if it's an interference fit, but it will if there's any play. Don't overdo the punch bit, as you are putting very slight stress on the casting this way. Nothing's really pulling on the pin in use - it's all sideways force.
If you don't have a hardened pin punch, you might get away with a big masonry pin. I made a point for some large home-made wooden compasses by cutting the head off such a nail with a dremel, then spinning the shaft in a drill press whilst re-forming the point with an old diamond honing plate. The result has kept a surprisingly sharp point for ages. It doesn't need to be an acute angle, just a defined point you can feel to be sharp with a finger. Don't lose the pin's hardness/temper though by letting it heat up in the sharpening process. Suitable pins come with electrical cable clips, but you can get bigger sizes from a builders' merchant. I keep a box mainly for that sort of job, as they're handy. If it's very soft steel (files easily), you might get away with a toughened screw (twin-quick, etc.). Chuck it and sharpen beforehand in the same way, but the steel isn't anything like as good for this as masonry pins (DAMHIK!).
The fact you can get a feeler gauge under one edge surprises me. What do any grinding marks on the surface tell you? Was this 'fettled' badly by someone else in the past, do you think?
Just curious.
E.
1. It depends how rounded it is on the back of the frog. If it's only slightly peined over, you might tap it up to be conical with some harder steel and working round the pin, tapping sideways. That way you might pein it over again at the back as before, once your work on the frog is done.
2. If you file it flat, as James C suggested, you would secure it for practical porpoises afterwards by centre-punching it, on the filed-off end, near the edge. If worried, put a drip of Loctite stud-locking compound in the hole before you drive it back. It probably won't help if it's an interference fit, but it will if there's any play. Don't overdo the punch bit, as you are putting very slight stress on the casting this way. Nothing's really pulling on the pin in use - it's all sideways force.
If you don't have a hardened pin punch, you might get away with a big masonry pin. I made a point for some large home-made wooden compasses by cutting the head off such a nail with a dremel, then spinning the shaft in a drill press whilst re-forming the point with an old diamond honing plate. The result has kept a surprisingly sharp point for ages. It doesn't need to be an acute angle, just a defined point you can feel to be sharp with a finger. Don't lose the pin's hardness/temper though by letting it heat up in the sharpening process. Suitable pins come with electrical cable clips, but you can get bigger sizes from a builders' merchant. I keep a box mainly for that sort of job, as they're handy. If it's very soft steel (files easily), you might get away with a toughened screw (twin-quick, etc.). Chuck it and sharpen beforehand in the same way, but the steel isn't anything like as good for this as masonry pins (DAMHIK!).
The fact you can get a feeler gauge under one edge surprises me. What do any grinding marks on the surface tell you? Was this 'fettled' badly by someone else in the past, do you think?
Just curious.
E.
David C
In Memorium
The advice not to remove the rivet is good and the safest.
Blades need support as near to the heel of the bevel as possible. The precise location of support near the top, is of little significance.
best wishes,
David Charlesworth
Blades need support as near to the heel of the bevel as possible. The precise location of support near the top, is of little significance.
best wishes,
David Charlesworth
bugbear
Established Member
David C":3vvfgahu said:
A tip from an old edition of Woodworker to reversibly open the mouth of a new wooden smoother was to put a leather shim at the top of the bed, thus pivoting the blade around the heel of the bevel, and (slightly) opening the mouth. This tip leaves the majority of the blade clear of the bed...
BugBear
Scouse
Established Member
Does the unevenness cause that much of an issue in use?
I've just had a quick cursory look at a couple of my planes, all of which allow a similar or greater feeler gauge down a gap on one side or the other of the lateral adjuster, but they all work fine.
I've just had a quick cursory look at a couple of my planes, all of which allow a similar or greater feeler gauge down a gap on one side or the other of the lateral adjuster, but they all work fine.
Dovetaildave
Established Member
Here are the basic tools I used;
Method
1, held frog in a engineers vice.
2, using square drift and hammer, gently tapped around the edge of the rivet, deflected it by about .75 mm radius, 1.5 mm dia.
3, used the flat of the drift to punch it through.
4, held lever and gentle wiggle and it was out.
I'm not a metal worker but I would say it was a very simple operation as this was a small soft rivet.
I notice the rivets seem to vary across the UK and US made as well as the Stanley and Record, so this is not definitive methods for all brands or countries of manufacture, but will probably do ok.
Some one asked if I would measure the rivet, so here it is 4mm Dia;
The surface showed quite a few deep machine marks and a small pip.
Same marks at the bottom edge
I held it longways and abraded it along the engineers plate a few times to get a wear pattern to ***** the amount of ridge, low and high points.
Bit more abrasion;
Moved to the EZELAP coarse Diamond plate, as I wasn't entirely happy with the possibility of the leading edges rounding over on the abrasive paper on the engineers plate, lots of effort later it began to shine.
I was right in my rounding fears and the plate took a lot of short movements to flatten to satisfaction.
If I did it again I'd only push the frog and have the bottom end trailing, leading with the lever end.
Method
1, held frog in a engineers vice.
2, using square drift and hammer, gently tapped around the edge of the rivet, deflected it by about .75 mm radius, 1.5 mm dia.
3, used the flat of the drift to punch it through.
4, held lever and gentle wiggle and it was out.
I'm not a metal worker but I would say it was a very simple operation as this was a small soft rivet.
I notice the rivets seem to vary across the UK and US made as well as the Stanley and Record, so this is not definitive methods for all brands or countries of manufacture, but will probably do ok.
Some one asked if I would measure the rivet, so here it is 4mm Dia;
The surface showed quite a few deep machine marks and a small pip.
Same marks at the bottom edge
I held it longways and abraded it along the engineers plate a few times to get a wear pattern to ***** the amount of ridge, low and high points.
Bit more abrasion;
Moved to the EZELAP coarse Diamond plate, as I wasn't entirely happy with the possibility of the leading edges rounding over on the abrasive paper on the engineers plate, lots of effort later it began to shine.
I was right in my rounding fears and the plate took a lot of short movements to flatten to satisfaction.
If I did it again I'd only push the frog and have the bottom end trailing, leading with the lever end.
